[FM Discuss] berlin pricing

[chris hofmann]

one other transparency mechanism I  also just thought about might be to 
publish the amount of cash raised by each book or around each topic or 
each community that has worked with FM to produce books.  

   e.g.  note on the site that says something like

     "The Firefox book as raised 400.50 euro toward paying for the cost 
of production and investment in FM projects"

This might create some very interesting dynamics.

The "last person in the cafe and/or getting a book 'over the hump'" 
dynamic --

    After a couple of bottles of wine and you are the last person in the
    Berlin cafe and the waiter/owner/operator told you that he really
    needed 50 euro to cover the costs for the night you might have
    'donated' 50 euro instead of 20, and felt really good about covering
    the cost of all the people that enjoyed the evening at the cafe.

The 'community empowerment/friendly competition' dynamic

    Another dynamic would be about communities (firefox, command line,
    censorship,... ) rallying  and 'competing' to bump individual
    contribution from that community to FM because of shared interest
    around the book the community produced and the desire to make FM
    sustainable.

    eg.g The folowing communitues have raised funding for FM in the
    following amounts:

    firefox  -                     698 euro
    linix command line    456 euro
    censorship                  203 euro


-chofmann


adam hyde wrote:
> hey
>
> ok, I think we are more or less on the same page. I never want to hold
> the 'exposure' carrot infront of anyone as I was subject to that as an
> artist too. As my career progressed as an artist I found that the carrot
> on the end of the stick just got bigger but was still unobtainable.
>
> So, here I am in agreement.
>
> However, where I dont agree is with regard to marking up books for sale
> as a reliable, sustainable, or ideologically aligned (with our aims)
> practice.
>
> I do like the idea of a 'suggested minimum donation'.  
>
> I may be too finely focusing in on this issue though, and probably need
> to zoom out a little and think about these bigger points you and chris
> bring up...
>
> so i go get a beer and do that now ;)
>
> adam
>
>
>
> On Sun, 2009-07-05 at 20:04 +0200, Derek Holzer wrote:
>   
>> Hi Adam,
>>
>> I think Chris did a fine job summing up my points, to whit:
>>
>>     
>>> --Know your costs,
>>> --Try to understand the value you are providing
>>> --Run the operation efficiently and effectively,
>>> --Plan for sustainability. 
>>>       
>> adam hyde wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Profit : selling the books for more than the price it costs to produce
>>> them.
>>>       
>> Knowing what it costs to produce them would help you price/suggest 
>> donation accordingly. People's time (including your own) should figure 
>> into that.
>>
>>     
>>> first priority, as far as I am concerned, is to find $ to hold more
>>> sprints.
>>>       
>> A fine priority!
>>
>>     
>>> I know of at least one : FLOSS Manuals but there are _many_ others. Many
>>> not for profits have no paid employees. 
>>>       
>> Is that required by the FLOSS Manuals charter? ;-)
>>
>>
>>     
>>> I have the feeling you expect book sales to generate a lot of revenue.
>>> This is not the case anywhere in the industry. 
>>>       
>> As with the music industry and all the others. Nope, not expecting 
>> anybody to get rich writing FLOSS Manuals. My points are more about 
>> finding a realistic figure (not out of thin air) for pricing the 
>> physical copies.
>>
>>     
>>>> "You can die of exposure."
>>>>         
>>> I dont get this last point...
>>>       
>> Criticism of "Berlin pricing" and whether people can actually live on it 
>> aside, I've repeated this phrase "you can die from exposure" to many 
>> curators etc over the last year who have asked me to do workshops, 
>> performances, installations etc for next to nothing because the symbolic 
>> value of being able to call something "art" and get "exposure" from it 
>> is supposedly greater than the need to pay rent.
>>
>> As an aside for non-native English speakers on this list: "exposure" is 
>> also what happens when you leave someone out in the wilderness with no 
>> food, water or heat for a long enough time... ;-)
>>
>> Application to FLOSS Manuals: don't sell yourself short, because the 
>> "exposure" is already there in terms of the website.
>>
>> best!
>> Derek
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>