From matrobnew at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 13:26:11 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 21:26:11 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks Message-ID: My name is Mathew Roberts. I have had two major careers to date, one as an English professor (for about 8 years and then another 8 and counting) and another as a technologist (primarily a software engineering manager for eCollege, 2000-2008). Looking to contribute to Floss. Clearly the first and easiest thing I can do is copy-edit new manual material -- a huge amount of my teaching has been composition and technical writing, so that comes easily enough without any particular domain knowledge. What I'd like to do eventually is contribute a chapter of my own to a manual --- right now I'm looking at Inkscape for example -- but to that end I'd need to become much, much more familiar with the tool. Happily I'm in the market for a new open-source raster-based image editor anyway, so I'll probably give it a look. Meanwhile I'll probably poke around in the Audacity manual as I'm much more familiar with that tool, and certainly do some sound-editing in a hobby capacity. Best, and happy 2018 to all, Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gpittman at iglou.com Tue Jan 2 15:08:39 2018 From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 18:08:39 -0500 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> On 01/02/2018 04:26 PM, M R wrote: > My name is Mathew Roberts.? I have had two major careers to date, one as > an English professor (for about 8 years and then another 8 and counting) > and another as a technologist (primarily a software engineering manager > for eCollege, 2000-2008).? Looking to contribute to Floss.? ?Clearly the > first and easiest thing I can do is copy-edit new manual material -- a > huge amount of my teaching has been composition and technical writing, > so that comes easily enough without any particular domain knowledge.? > What I'd like to do eventually is contribute a chapter of my own to a > manual --- right now I'm looking at Inkscape for example -- but to that > end I'd need to become much, much more familiar with the tool.? ?Happily > I'm in the market for a new open-source raster-based image editor > anyway, so I'll probably give it a look.? Meanwhile I'll probably poke > around in the Audacity manual as I'm much more familiar with that tool, > and certainly do some sound-editing in a hobby capacity. > Hi Matt, You might start out just poking around, looking for issues with the way things are explained in whatever manuals that interest you. I haven't done so much here, but I've never had any problems with someone critiquing my work, offering better ways to say what I'm trying to get across. Greg From matrobnew at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 15:36:54 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 23:36:54 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> References: , <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> Message-ID: Hi Greg (and whomever else): Thanks. One of the follow-up questions I had is about the relationship between a given Floss documentation project and the 'official' documentation supported by that software's own organization. Two examples (since I happen to be familiar with these tools): Audacity and Blender. Both of these organizations have documentation sites (online manuals, wikis, tutorial pages) that are far more detailed and comprehensive (not to mention more current to latest releases) than the respective Floss doc projects. I'd add the same for GIMP, actually. So on the one hand, this offers a great deal of scope for adding more detail, additional chapters etc to the relevant Floss books. On the other hand, it somewhat begs the question of why we'd be doing this in the first place? Some of the Floss doc projects I've seen are not specific to a particular technology, or focus on some niche use of that technology, so in those cases they're clearly not duplicating other doc efforts elsewhere. But when it comes to basic user manuals on tools that are already very richly documented....I am just curious about who is reading the Floss documentation vs the official documentation. For me personally, Floss is promising as a way to build up a technical writing portfolio, so I'm happy to have the opportunity to add a few chapters to the Blender or Audacity or GIMP books, or indeed maybe write a whole manual for Unity3D, which is an open-source tool I know pretty well and not yet represented on Floss. But I do have to wonder who might actually *read* such docs, as opposed to simply going to the makers' own documentation. I'd be interested in answers from anyone on the list. It's clear that the original Floss project in the late aughts had an important place in open-source documentation, esp in Dutch and other non-English European languages. 10 years on, I'm not as certain. But I'm very open to being convinced. best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Gregory Pittman Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 4:08 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks On 01/02/2018 04:26 PM, M R wrote: > My name is Mathew Roberts. I have had two major careers to date, one as > an English professor (for about 8 years and then another 8 and counting) > and another as a technologist (primarily a software engineering manager > for eCollege, 2000-2008). Looking to contribute to Floss. Clearly the > first and easiest thing I can do is copy-edit new manual material -- a > huge amount of my teaching has been composition and technical writing, > so that comes easily enough without any particular domain knowledge. > What I'd like to do eventually is contribute a chapter of my own to a > manual --- right now I'm looking at Inkscape for example -- but to that > end I'd need to become much, much more familiar with the tool. Happily > I'm in the market for a new open-source raster-based image editor > anyway, so I'll probably give it a look. Meanwhile I'll probably poke > around in the Audacity manual as I'm much more familiar with that tool, > and certainly do some sound-editing in a hobby capacity. > Hi Matt, You might start out just poking around, looking for issues with the way things are explained in whatever manuals that interest you. I haven't done so much here, but I've never had any problems with someone critiquing my work, offering better ways to say what I'm trying to get across. Greg _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Discuss Info Page - lists.flossmanuals.net lists.flossmanuals.net Discuss anything about floss manuals - its aims, what it does, how it does it, what it could do, and how it can be better. To see the collection of prior postings to ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gpittman at iglou.com Tue Jan 2 16:41:18 2018 From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 19:41:18 -0500 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> Message-ID: <192c498a-75cf-09df-4fbb-839d3b9d6f8c@iglou.com> On 01/02/2018 06:36 PM, M R wrote: > Hi Greg (and whomever else): > > > Thanks.? One of the follow-up questions I had is about the relationship > between a given Floss documentation project and the 'official' > documentation supported by that software's own organization.? Two > examples (since I happen to be familiar with these tools): Audacity and > Blender.? Both of these organizations have documentation sites (online > manuals, wikis, tutorial pages) that are far more detailed and > comprehensive (not to mention more current to?latest releases) than the > respective Floss doc projects.? I'd add the same for GIMP, actually.?So > on the one hand, this offers a great deal of scope for adding more > detail, additional chapters etc to the relevant?Floss books.? On the > other hand, it somewhat begs the question of why we'd be doing this in > the first place?? Some of the Floss doc projects I've seen are not > specific to a particular technology, or focus on some niche use of that > technology, so in those cases they're clearly not duplicating other doc > efforts elsewhere.? But when it comes to basic user manuals on tools > that are already very richly documented....I am just curious about who > is reading the Floss documentation vs the official documentation.? For > me personally, Floss is promising as a way to build up a technical > writing portfolio, so I'm happy to have the opportunity to add a few > chapters to the Blender or Audacity or GIMP?books, or indeed maybe write > a whole manual for Unity3D, which is an open-source?tool I know pretty > well and not yet represented on Floss.? But I do have to wonder who > might actually *read* such docs, as opposed to simply going to the > makers' own documentation.?? > > > I'd be interested in answers from anyone on the list.? ?It's clear that > the original Floss project in the late aughts had an important place in > open-source documentation, esp in Dutch and other non-English European > languages.? 10 years on, I'm not as certain.? But I'm very open to being > convinced. > I'm hoping there will be plenty of answers other than mine. To some extent, flossmanuals fills a need where no good manuals exist. Beyond that, I've seen a number of comprehensive manuals associated with projects that are hard to absorb as a new user. There may be a need for a particular point of view. Part of what you need to decide is whether you think that something you're working on fills a need. Personally, I'm involved with the Scribus project. There is an online manual that comes with it, a wiki, and Christoph Sch?fer and I wrote what's been dubbed the "Official Manual", which is/was a physical book, and it cost money to purchase. Meanwhile there was a group of French speakers who got together and wrote a flossmanual, Scribus. I liked the approach, focusing on taking a user through one or more projects with Scribus, so I translated it into English for flossmanuals. One might argue that there never are too many manuals, though I would say that each should justify its existence. Also, existing manuals become dated. The one that Christoph and I wrote in 2009 is now in many ways outmoded by new developments in Scribus. Greg From williamk at dut.ac.za Tue Jan 2 21:01:46 2018 From: williamk at dut.ac.za (William Walter Kinghorn) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 05:01:46 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: <192c498a-75cf-09df-4fbb-839d3b9d6f8c@iglou.com> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> , <192c498a-75cf-09df-4fbb-839d3b9d6f8c@iglou.com> Message-ID: <1514955706623.22040@dut.ac.za> Hi All, Greg, Matt, I am one of those who wants to do Manuals, but don't know how/where to start Matt, you say that you have Technical Writing and Copy Editing skills, could you possibly start a manual (or 2) that will help me (us, as there are possibly more than just me) to get ourselves going Similar to GSoC Student Guide : http://write.flossmanuals.net/gsocstudentguide/what-is-google-summer-of-code/ and GSoC Mentors Manual : http://write.flossmanuals.net/gsoc-mentoring/about-this-manual/ Possible titles: Technical Writing for FLOSS projects Which can be broken up into 2 projects Writing Technical Documents Writing Everyday use Documents Copy Editing for FLOSS projects Often FLOSS software projects, have documentation from a Technical perspective, not how to use the software in everyday use also: How to update the manual ( Maintenance ) Another document could be: Why would you write Documentation for FLOSS Manuals Have a intro, then get authors of existing FLOSS Manuals to give their take on why they wrote a manual Thanks William ________________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Gregory Pittman Sent: 03 January 2018 02:41 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks On 01/02/2018 06:36 PM, M R wrote: > Hi Greg (and whomever else): > > > Thanks. One of the follow-up questions I had is about the relationship > between a given Floss documentation project and the 'official' > documentation supported by that software's own organization. Two > examples (since I happen to be familiar with these tools): Audacity and > Blender. Both of these organizations have documentation sites (online > manuals, wikis, tutorial pages) that are far more detailed and > comprehensive (not to mention more current to latest releases) than the > respective Floss doc projects. I'd add the same for GIMP, actually. So > on the one hand, this offers a great deal of scope for adding more > detail, additional chapters etc to the relevant Floss books. On the > other hand, it somewhat begs the question of why we'd be doing this in > the first place? Some of the Floss doc projects I've seen are not > specific to a particular technology, or focus on some niche use of that > technology, so in those cases they're clearly not duplicating other doc > efforts elsewhere. But when it comes to basic user manuals on tools > that are already very richly documented....I am just curious about who > is reading the Floss documentation vs the official documentation. For > me personally, Floss is promising as a way to build up a technical > writing portfolio, so I'm happy to have the opportunity to add a few > chapters to the Blender or Audacity or GIMP books, or indeed maybe write > a whole manual for Unity3D, which is an open-source tool I know pretty > well and not yet represented on Floss. But I do have to wonder who > might actually *read* such docs, as opposed to simply going to the > makers' own documentation. > > > I'd be interested in answers from anyone on the list. It's clear that > the original Floss project in the late aughts had an important place in > open-source documentation, esp in Dutch and other non-English European > languages. 10 years on, I'm not as certain. But I'm very open to being > convinced. > I'm hoping there will be plenty of answers other than mine. To some extent, flossmanuals fills a need where no good manuals exist. Beyond that, I've seen a number of comprehensive manuals associated with projects that are hard to absorb as a new user. There may be a need for a particular point of view. Part of what you need to decide is whether you think that something you're working on fills a need. Personally, I'm involved with the Scribus project. There is an online manual that comes with it, a wiki, and Christoph Sch?fer and I wrote what's been dubbed the "Official Manual", which is/was a physical book, and it cost money to purchase. Meanwhile there was a group of French speakers who got together and wrote a flossmanual, Scribus. I liked the approach, focusing on taking a user through one or more projects with Scribus, so I translated it into English for flossmanuals. One might argue that there never are too many manuals, though I would say that each should justify its existence. Also, existing manuals become dated. The one that Christoph and I wrote in 2009 is now in many ways outmoded by new developments in Scribus. Greg _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here ________________________________ "This e-mail is subject to our Disclaimer, to view click http://www.dut.ac.za/disclaimer" Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and automatically archived by Mimecast SA (Pty) Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Mimecast Unified Email Management (UEM) offers email continuity, security, archiving and compliance with all current legislation. To find out more, visit http://www.mimecast.co.za/uem. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Wed Jan 3 00:40:10 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 08:40:10 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: <1514955706623.22040@dut.ac.za> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> , <192c498a-75cf-09df-4fbb-839d3b9d6f8c@iglou.com> <1514955706623.22040@dut.ac.za> Message-ID: Hi there, This is a great idea. Here?s a suggested way to go about it but just a suggestion. I?ve cloned the out of date manual here http://write.flossmanuals.net/floss-manuals/ To here http://write.flossmanuals.net/flossmanuals I?ve added a chapter at the end with the updated workflow in a nutshell. The manual is VERY out of date and hasn?t been on the front page for a while but we can use this as a base and a way to work out what is still relevant or what needs re-doing. I?ve also created a gitlab repo which we can use as an issue tracker / wiki to help communication if there is more detail than is appropriate for this list but for the moment let?s use this list for communication. Please let me know if the permissions are appropriate and if people want to be admins on this. https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype Thanks Mick Mick Chesterman Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & EdLab Project Developer Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. Manchester Metropolitan University Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: @EdLabMMU Phone: 0161 2472060 Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of William Walter Kinghorn Sent: 03 January 2018 05:02 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks Hi All, Greg, Matt, I am one of those who wants to do Manuals, but don't know how/where to start Matt, you say that you have Technical Writing and Copy Editing skills, could you possibly start a manual (or 2) that will help me (us, as there are possibly more than just me) to get ourselves going Similar to GSoC Student Guide : http://write.flossmanuals.net/gsocstudentguide/what-is-google-summer-of-code/ and GSoC Mentors Manual : http://write.flossmanuals.net/gsoc-mentoring/about-this-manual/ Possible titles: Technical Writing for FLOSS projects Which can be broken up into 2 projects Writing Technical Documents Writing Everyday use Documents Copy Editing for FLOSS projects Often FLOSS software projects, have documentation from a Technical perspective, not how to use the software in everyday use also: How to update the manual ( Maintenance ) Another document could be: Why would you write Documentation for FLOSS Manuals Have a intro, then get authors of existing FLOSS Manuals to give their take on why they wrote a manual Thanks William ________________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Gregory Pittman > Sent: 03 January 2018 02:41 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks On 01/02/2018 06:36 PM, M R wrote: > Hi Greg (and whomever else): > > > Thanks. One of the follow-up questions I had is about the relationship > between a given Floss documentation project and the 'official' > documentation supported by that software's own organization. Two > examples (since I happen to be familiar with these tools): Audacity and > Blender. Both of these organizations have documentation sites (online > manuals, wikis, tutorial pages) that are far more detailed and > comprehensive (not to mention more current to latest releases) than the > respective Floss doc projects. I'd add the same for GIMP, actually. So > on the one hand, this offers a great deal of scope for adding more > detail, additional chapters etc to the relevant Floss books. On the > other hand, it somewhat begs the question of why we'd be doing this in > the first place? Some of the Floss doc projects I've seen are not > specific to a particular technology, or focus on some niche use of that > technology, so in those cases they're clearly not duplicating other doc > efforts elsewhere. But when it comes to basic user manuals on tools > that are already very richly documented....I am just curious about who > is reading the Floss documentation vs the official documentation. For > me personally, Floss is promising as a way to build up a technical > writing portfolio, so I'm happy to have the opportunity to add a few > chapters to the Blender or Audacity or GIMP books, or indeed maybe write > a whole manual for Unity3D, which is an open-source tool I know pretty > well and not yet represented on Floss. But I do have to wonder who > might actually *read* such docs, as opposed to simply going to the > makers' own documentation. > > > I'd be interested in answers from anyone on the list. It's clear that > the original Floss project in the late aughts had an important place in > open-source documentation, esp in Dutch and other non-English European > languages. 10 years on, I'm not as certain. But I'm very open to being > convinced. > I'm hoping there will be plenty of answers other than mine. To some extent, flossmanuals fills a need where no good manuals exist. Beyond that, I've seen a number of comprehensive manuals associated with projects that are hard to absorb as a new user. There may be a need for a particular point of view. Part of what you need to decide is whether you think that something you're working on fills a need. Personally, I'm involved with the Scribus project. There is an online manual that comes with it, a wiki, and Christoph Sch?fer and I wrote what's been dubbed the "Official Manual", which is/was a physical book, and it cost money to purchase. Meanwhile there was a group of French speakers who got together and wrote a flossmanual, Scribus. I liked the approach, focusing on taking a user through one or more projects with Scribus, so I translated it into English for flossmanuals. One might argue that there never are too many manuals, though I would say that each should justify its existence. Also, existing manuals become dated. The one that Christoph and I wrote in 2009 is now in many ways outmoded by new developments in Scribus. Greg _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here ________________________________ "This e-mail is subject to our Disclaimer, to view click http://www.dut.ac.za/disclaimer" Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and automatically archived by Mimecast SA (Pty) Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Mimecast Unified Email Management ? (UEM) offers email continuity, security, archiving and compliance with all current legislation. To find out more, contact Mimecast. "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mick at flossmanuals.net Wed Jan 3 00:52:57 2018 From: mick at flossmanuals.net (Mick Chesterman) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 08:52:57 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: <192c498a-75cf-09df-4fbb-839d3b9d6f8c@iglou.com> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <192c498a-75cf-09df-4fbb-839d3b9d6f8c@iglou.com> Message-ID: <01b1104b-1d06-ad39-a1f5-50068dab06df@flossmanuals.net> On 03/01/2018 00:41, Gregory Pittman wrote: > On 01/02/2018 06:36 PM, M R wrote: >> Hi Greg (and whomever else): >> >> > I'm hoping there will be plenty of answers other than mine. To some > extent, flossmanuals fills a need where no good manuals exist. Beyond > that, I've seen a number of comprehensive manuals associated with > projects that are hard to absorb as a new user. There may be a need for > a particular point of view. Part of what you need to decide is whether > you think that something you're working on fills a need. > > > One might argue that there never are too many manuals, though I would > say that each should justify its existence. Also, existing manuals > become dated. The one that Christoph and I wrote in 2009 is now in many > ways outmoded by new developments in Scribus. Hi Matt, I would agree with Greg, It's a good question and can vary for lots of people. Most of this is different manuals for different needs. A discussion on this would be good for an updated manual. Going back to the original premise it was started by Adam Hyde who wanted supplementary docs for the workshops he was giving and I still think that is in the DNA of FM. Beginner docs focused on a particular area of practice. Thus docs don't have to be exhaustive / complete list of features. I think one of Adam's other big pushes was to use FM as a tempate for to fill the gap of a web to print? collaborative workflow. He build a lot of momentum around that which was great to pull people in to the project and get funding. Having a more narrow focus allows the manual to be shorter and thus easier to translate and print (and update in theory!). It also means that by having clustered manuals around topics like, Video, Audio, Graphics, Net Security, you build a network of contributors and as a workshop leader you have a repository you can pick and mix from when creating tailored courses (I used to do this when running a DIY media centre in Salford). Having said that, there hasn't really been a new manual or even an updated one on FM for some time, althought there is good work going on with Inkscape, but I would say that is due to a lack of active facilitation and outreach rather than a fault in scope. It would be great to hear other thoughts. FM has been coasting for a while now, 2018 is probably a good time to resolve and document some of these issues and then make a push to make FM sustaining. nice one Mick From matrobnew at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 01:43:25 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 09:43:25 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: <01b1104b-1d06-ad39-a1f5-50068dab06df@flossmanuals.net> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <192c498a-75cf-09df-4fbb-839d3b9d6f8c@iglou.com>, <01b1104b-1d06-ad39-a1f5-50068dab06df@flossmanuals.net> Message-ID: Really great, thoughtful and useful responses from you guys. I should make it clear that while I can claim *some* competence in tech writing by way of the intersection of English comp teaching and the documentation that's intrinsic to a SE manager (mostly technical specs for our dev team, QA, the Biz people, etc, plus a few whitepapers for external audiences), I've never held the actual title of tech writer -- that is what I'm shooting for -- so I wouldn't want to give the impression that I can bless the Floss world overall with TW expertise or meta- insight, as Mick is suggesting (or I guess Walter). I need the TW practice myself. I've certainly never done end-user oriented documentation. I can always do general editing (what I think Walter is calling Copy Editing) for anyone else's texts in progress, but that doesn't seem to be the major need right now; and I'm guessing that most active people on this list are good writers who don't really need further copy editing skills in any case. I will say that, as someone who IS looking at the whole world of tech writing with fairly new eyes, one thing that really strikes me is a general uncertainty, in the 'trade', about how much effort to devote to written (ie text-and-screenshot) type manuals as opposed to video tutorials. Clearly there remains a need for RoboHelp-type Help pages, and also clearly a need for written API documentation for programmers. And for people who are actually learning how to code, as such, there is probably still a majority preference for written references and perhaps tutorials. But for people who are coming new to especially graphically-oriented software, such as Inkscape or Blender, or really even Audacity, I do wonder about the utility of the text-and-screenshot mode of introduction. Personally I would never have learned Flash, Blender, Unity3D, Audacity or anything else I've picked up in the past 7 years from that format. And I'm a literature professor by major vocation, who generally worships the written word -- just not so much in this context. Which raises the question of whether Floss would ever consider opening itself up to visual modes of presentation. Of course, this would never have come up in Adam Hyde's original vision, since he was looking for supplemental docs for in-person workshops; and maybe Floss needs to keep with that niche, I dunno. This is more a question I have for the Tech Writing/Tech Communication industry in general, but it certainly comes up here if we're talking about what 'manuals' should look like in 2018. The other possible niche I take away from the discussion on this list today is one where a writer is focused on some very-specific operation within a given tool, or perhaps in the integration of several tools (which would by definition never be deeply addressed in the native docs for either tool). For example, I would love some detailed documentation on how to get a Unity3D gaming project to integrate with Adobe Captivate (which is one of the industry-leading eLearning authoring tools, just fyi). I'd write that myself, except I can't get it to work ?. But I've also been considering, for example, doing some (perhaps written, perhaps vid) documentation around specific operations within 3D game physics in Unity. In fact I'm pretty sure I'm going to do that, whether it ends up having anything to do with Floss or not. I really appreciate the discussion, in any case. It may be that the meta-discussion (what is Floss for these days) is better left to the older hands, like you guys. But, as I am basically a humanities professor, a lack of expertise in a given field has rarely gotten in the way of my having opinions... Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 1:52 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks On 03/01/2018 00:41, Gregory Pittman wrote: > On 01/02/2018 06:36 PM, M R wrote: >> Hi Greg (and whomever else): >> >> > I'm hoping there will be plenty of answers other than mine. To some > extent, flossmanuals fills a need where no good manuals exist. Beyond > that, I've seen a number of comprehensive manuals associated with > projects that are hard to absorb as a new user. There may be a need for > a particular point of view. Part of what you need to decide is whether > you think that something you're working on fills a need. > > > One might argue that there never are too many manuals, though I would > say that each should justify its existence. Also, existing manuals > become dated. The one that Christoph and I wrote in 2009 is now in many > ways outmoded by new developments in Scribus. Hi Matt, I would agree with Greg, It's a good question and can vary for lots of people. Most of this is different manuals for different needs. A discussion on this would be good for an updated manual. Going back to the original premise it was started by Adam Hyde who wanted supplementary docs for the workshops he was giving and I still think that is in the DNA of FM. Beginner docs focused on a particular area of practice. Thus docs don't have to be exhaustive / complete list of features. I think one of Adam's other big pushes was to use FM as a tempate for to fill the gap of a web to print collaborative workflow. He build a lot of momentum around that which was great to pull people in to the project and get funding. Having a more narrow focus allows the manual to be shorter and thus easier to translate and print (and update in theory!). It also means that by having clustered manuals around topics like, Video, Audio, Graphics, Net Security, you build a network of contributors and as a workshop leader you have a repository you can pick and mix from when creating tailored courses (I used to do this when running a DIY media centre in Salford). Having said that, there hasn't really been a new manual or even an updated one on FM for some time, althought there is good work going on with Inkscape, but I would say that is due to a lack of active facilitation and outreach rather than a fault in scope. It would be great to hear other thoughts. FM has been coasting for a while now, 2018 is probably a good time to resolve and document some of these issues and then make a push to make FM sustaining. nice one Mick _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Discuss Info Page - lists.flossmanuals.net lists.flossmanuals.net Discuss anything about floss manuals - its aims, what it does, how it does it, what it could do, and how it can be better. To see the collection of prior postings to ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gpittman at iglou.com Wed Jan 3 07:33:24 2018 From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 10:33:24 -0500 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: <01b1104b-1d06-ad39-a1f5-50068dab06df@flossmanuals.net> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <192c498a-75cf-09df-4fbb-839d3b9d6f8c@iglou.com> <01b1104b-1d06-ad39-a1f5-50068dab06df@flossmanuals.net> Message-ID: On 01/03/2018 03:52 AM, Mick Chesterman wrote: > > > Going back to the original premise it was started by Adam Hyde who > wanted supplementary docs for the workshops he was giving and I still > think that is in the DNA of FM. Beginner docs focused on a particular > area of practice. Thus docs don't have to be exhaustive / complete list > of features. > > I think one of Adam's other big pushes was to use FM as a tempate for to > fill the gap of a web to print? collaborative workflow. He build a lot > of momentum around that which was great to pull people in to the project > and get funding. > > Having a more narrow focus allows the manual to be shorter and thus > easier to translate and print (and update in theory!). > It also means that by having clustered manuals around topics like, > Video, Audio, Graphics, Net Security, you build a network of > contributors and as a workshop leader you have a repository you can pick > and mix from when creating tailored courses (I used to do this when > running a DIY media centre in Salford). > > Having said that, there hasn't really been a new manual or even an > updated one on FM for some time, althought there is good work going on > with Inkscape, but I would say that is due to a lack of active > facilitation and outreach rather than a fault in scope. > > It would be great to hear other thoughts. FM has been coasting for a > while now, 2018 is probably a good time to resolve and document some of > these issues and then make a push to make FM sustaining. > Hi Mick, Perhaps one of the things between the lines of these initial contacts is that FM seems to have a hard shell, and outsiders have a hard time figuring out how to get in. The answer isn't necessarily to open the gates all the way, yet there must be ways that new potential contributors can be encouraged to wade or dive into FM. Would it be possible to consider a method by which anyone might submit an updated chapter for an existing book, for it to be considered for replacement of the pre-existing part? This would be analogous to new developers to a project first submitting bug fixes. Then, with some experience that they do good work, they gradually are allowed more open access to direct editing. Something else might be a "book idea incubator", where those interested in a particular topic might communicate to develop an idea for a book, while making sure that they have the numbers of people and expertise to carry the project through. This might help avoid books that begin with a lot of effort then fizzle at some point. As far as Matt's questioning of the need or value of text and images kinds of resources, I can say that on a personal level I have begun to create my own ebooks, typically small in scale, that I use as references after I haven't used some tool for a while. For example, I recently went back to Postgresql for a project I was working on. Years ago I was using it on a daily basis, and of course had no trouble remembering all sorts of commands for creating, editing, and using tables in Postgresql. It's amazing how much I had forgotten. There is a comprehensive and massive (3580 page) PDF one can download on Postgresql 9.6.6, and it's written in the old style of manuals which are, yes, complete, but not very approachable. Even the TOC is mind-boggling. There are also various fragments of information one can get from googling something, but typically they are very much fragments, and like so many things found with googling, of varying age, some ancient, some quite wrong or poorly explained. So along the way, I've been adding to my ebook various techniques, and focusing on the few administrative tasks I need to know, but mostly on the user tasks. This is nothing on the scale of something for FM, but fills a need for me. In particular, I need something I can go back to as a reference later to find something in a minute instead of taking 30 minutes to an hour. Greg From rclord at seaserpent.com Wed Jan 3 15:13:22 2018 From: rclord at seaserpent.com (Rosalind Lord) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 15:13:22 -0800 Subject: [FM Discuss] introducing myself In-Reply-To: References: <7900B194-AA41-49BA-BC69-FBD51D80B6CE@seaserpent.com> <3222e786-5fc8-d432-9163-616dc1bfa900@goos-habermann.de> <4ce1d8af-6c3f-ed1e-3a40-322082856a11@goos-habermann.de> <1A97244B-DF95-4669-A4CF-1A61BB7A3694@seaserpent.com> <336aaa01-110f-992b-2f78-0990417b4a57@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: <3BBFF629-FEB6-4735-8B4E-F90F7EDB0703@seaserpent.com> Hi: The chapter for installing Inkscape into a Mac in the "Start Inkscape" manual now has two sets of instructions: one for installing Inkscape itself, and one for installing XQuartz, which is needed for Inkscape to run properly on a Mac. I look forward to any feedback about this chapter anyone might have. Thanks very much, - Rosalind > On Dec 29, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Rosalind Lord wrote: > > Hi Maren: > > I will be happy to flesh out the default way of installing Inkscape into a Mac, and mainly focus on that. > > I will also be happy to keep this updated, no problem. > > And I am all for splitting the 3 OSes into different sections. > > I can also help with images and layouting, since I have lots of experience in that area. > > Have a great new year weekend, > > - Rosalind Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? ... at Zazzle: New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maren at goos-habermann.de Wed Jan 3 15:47:06 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 00:47:06 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] introducing myself In-Reply-To: <3BBFF629-FEB6-4735-8B4E-F90F7EDB0703@seaserpent.com> References: <7900B194-AA41-49BA-BC69-FBD51D80B6CE@seaserpent.com> <3222e786-5fc8-d432-9163-616dc1bfa900@goos-habermann.de> <4ce1d8af-6c3f-ed1e-3a40-322082856a11@goos-habermann.de> <1A97244B-DF95-4669-A4CF-1A61BB7A3694@seaserpent.com> <336aaa01-110f-992b-2f78-0990417b4a57@goos-habermann.de> <3BBFF629-FEB6-4735-8B4E-F90F7EDB0703@seaserpent.com> Message-ID: <235ad613-d4db-0c81-8d86-fbc247d43fb9@goos-habermann.de> Hi Rosalind, Thanks! That's great! I'll take a look this week-end (or hopefully before). Could you (and everyone interested in the Inkscape manual) please use the gitlab issue tracker for communication about things related to editing the manual? Then we can have discussions together in the whole team. The other manual folks (some of whom don't want to edit, but prefer proofreading and giving feedback in a comment) are all there, and I think nobody of them is reading along here. Thank you, Kind Regards, Maren Am 04.01.2018 um 00:13 schrieb Rosalind Lord: > Hi: > > The chapter for installing Inkscape into a Mac in the "Start Inkscape" > manual now has two sets of instructions: ?one for installing Inkscape > itself, and one for installing XQuartz, which is needed for Inkscape to > run properly on a Mac. > > I look forward to any feedback about this chapter anyone might have. > > Thanks very much, > > - Rosalind > >> On Dec 29, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Rosalind Lord > > wrote: >> >> Hi Maren: >> >> I will be happy to flesh out the default way of installing Inkscape >> into a Mac, and mainly focus on that. >> >> I will also be happy to keep this updated, no problem. >> >> And I am all for splitting the 3 OSes into different sections. >> >> I can also help with images and layouting, since I have lots of >> experience in that area. >> >> Have a great new year weekend, >> >> - Rosalind > > Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts > ? > > ... at Zazzle: > New Year Clock Card > New Year Clock Card > ... at Redbubble: > > Buy my art > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > From maren at goos-habermann.de Wed Jan 3 15:59:56 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 00:59:56 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] introducing myself In-Reply-To: References: <7900B194-AA41-49BA-BC69-FBD51D80B6CE@seaserpent.com> <3222e786-5fc8-d432-9163-616dc1bfa900@goos-habermann.de> <4ce1d8af-6c3f-ed1e-3a40-322082856a11@goos-habermann.de> <1A97244B-DF95-4669-A4CF-1A61BB7A3694@seaserpent.com> <336aaa01-110f-992b-2f78-0990417b4a57@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: Hi Rosalind, sorry, I didn't have the time to get to this before now. Sounds like a great plan - and if you would like to dig into layout, please familiarize yourself with the instructions on gitlab: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/tree/master/beginners_guide and with the details given at http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/formless-content/ and let me know if you think that's something you can work with. You will find a CSS file that has been started by Jabier, one of our main developers, who also happens to be a web designer, in the repository (first link, click on css_and_fonts). Inkscape doesn't have an official style guide yet, but it would be good to stick with the branding guide lines and to try to stick to the color scheme of the website: https://inkscape.org/en/about/branding/ For screenshot-making, you should be using a Windows computer. But what you could do on your Mac is prepare the drawings that can be screen-shot (?) by someone with a Windows machine. Check out the chapters that we have, look for images that require translation and contain a drawing, then prepare a drawing and let us know here: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/issues/16 Kind Regards, Maren Am 30.12.2017 um 04:19 schrieb Rosalind Lord: > Hi Maren: > > I will be happy to flesh out the default way of installing Inkscape into > a Mac, and mainly focus on that. > > I will also be happy to keep this updated, no problem. > > And I am all for splitting the 3 OSes into different sections. > > I can also help with images and layouting, since I have lots of > experience in that area. > > Have a great new year weekend, > > - Rosalind > >> On Dec 29, 2017, at 4:10 PM, Maren Hachmann > > wrote: >> >> Hi Rosalind, >> >> thanks! >> >> There are no deadlines ;-) In principle, the book basis is almost ready, >> except for images and layouting, but those two things are going very slow. >> >> What I was referring to was that you described the XQuartz installation, >> but not the Inkscape installation and setup yet, so what we have up to >> now is step 1 out of 5 on the linked web page. Install instructions >> might change with the next major version, too, so I hope you'll help us >> by keeping them updated, if you can :) >> >> The most tricky part, though, is the adaptation of any settings, also >> take a look into our FAQ: >> https://inkscape.org/en/learn/faq/, section 'Mac OS specific problems'. >> This is important so keyboard shortcuts will work correctly, and >> copy-pasting does the expected thing (and not paste screenshots/bitmap >> copies) of the vector contents. >> >> As for Macports and Homebrew, those are mostly for advanced users, who >> do not mind to use the command line etc. Installation is complex, and >> requires lots of software to download and install first. I think that >> beyond mentioning them, it's not within the scope of a beginners' guide >> to explain how to do installation with them. >> >> So I'd like to ask you to rather flesh out the default option a bit, and >> to not invest too much into the other options. That's going to benefit >> the un-techy users that we're targeting in the guide most. >> >> (I'm not on a Mac, but I've been discussing these things with the people >> who provide the MacPorts port and the Homebrew brew, and wrote the >> install instructions on the website for those ;-)) >> >> I'm thinking of maybe splitting the three OSs into separate chapters, as >> that way people can skip the chapters they don't need to read about more >> easily. That would also mean to reorganize the sections a bit. What do >> you think about that? >> >> Kind Regards + best wishes for the new year, >> Maren >> >> On 29.12.2017 21:21, Rosalind Lord wrote: >>> Hi Maren: >>> >>> No problem, I will definitely include the other 2 ways to install >>> Inkscape in a Mac. >>> >>> And I will be happy to discuss new chapters with the rest of the group >>> before I create a new one. >>> >>> Please let me know if there are any specific deadlines, and I will work >>> on reaching them. >>> >>> Happy New Year to all of you, >>> >>> - Rosalind >>> >>>> On Dec 28, 2017, at 5:02 PM, Maren Hachmann >>> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Ooops, there was an error: the licence is CC-By 4.0. >>>> Sorry! >>>> >>>> Maren >>>> >>>> Am 28.12.2017 um 19:58 schrieb Maren Hachmann: >>>>> Hi Rosalind, >>>>> >>>>> thanks for your introduction, we're happy to have you! >>>>> >>>>> As discussion about the manual happens at gitlab, mostly >>>>> (https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/issues) and - >>>>> for big >>>>> announcements - on the inkscape-docs mailing list, please just pop over >>>>> there and say hello! (most of the others are probably not registered >>>>> here). >>>>> >>>>> Also read up on the book's details here: >>>>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals#inkscape-beginners-guide >>>>> >>>>> By contributing, you agree to make your contributions according to the >>>>> book's licence, which is CC-By-SA 4.0. >>>>> >>>>> As for the installation chapter, that's a good idea! >>>>> New ideas are usually - at least shortly - discussed in the team, >>>>> but an >>>>> installation chapter was on the list anyway, so it's great that you >>>>> started on it. >>>>> >>>>> Here's some more info for installation on OS X: >>>>> https://inkscape.org/en/release/0.92.2/mac-os-x/107/dmg/ >>>>> Your description is already fleshing out step one, which is described >>>>> rather sparsely in the instructions. Great start! >>>>> >>>>> Can you fill in the other steps for MacOS, too? (please don't just >>>>> copy-paste, the licences of website and book are incompatible). We >>>>> don't >>>>> have any other OS X user contributing to the manual, as far as I can >>>>> remember, so that would be really helpful. >>>>> >>>>> I hope you'll enjoy working on the book with us! >>>>> >>>>> See you on gitlab, >>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>> Maren >>>>> >>>>> Am 28.12.2017 um 04:02 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >>>>>> Hi all: >>>>>> >>>>>> I just joined Floss Manuals, as I?m pursuing a career in technical >>>>>> writing. My background includes web design and development, and >>>>>> reviewing tech books (see?http://seaserpent.com/writings/). >>>>>> >>>>>> I also wrote an article explaining differences between two versions of >>>>>> Coocs 2D, which I believe is the closest to technical writing I?ve >>>>>> done. >>>>>> You can check it out >>>>>> at?http://seaserpent.com/blog/2012/05/how-to-do-tutorials-in-iad-producer-book-using-2-1/. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have already created a new chapter in the book ?Start with Inkscape? >>>>>> (http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/_info/). This >>>>>> chapter >>>>>> is on how to install Inkscape. I have written a section on how to >>>>>> install Inkscape into Mac OSX, since it is the only desktop machine I >>>>>> have. I have also include blank sections for Windows and >>>>>> Gnu/Linux. They >>>>>> are here for you to fill. >>>>>> >>>>>> Looking forward to meeting and working all of you, >>>>>> >>>>>> - Rosalind Lord >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts >>>>>> ? >>>>>> >>>>>> ... at Zazzle: >>>>>> Rudolf with Lights Bag >>>>>> >>>>>> Rudolf with Lights Bag >>>>>> >>>>>> by rclord >>>>>> Teddy Bear in Town Card >>>>>> >>>>>> Teddy Bear in Town Card >>>>>> >>>>>> by rclord >>>>>> ... at Redbubble: >>>>>> >>>>>> Buy my art >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>>>> - you can unsubscribe here >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>>>> you can unsubscribe here >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts >>> ? >>> >>> ... at Zazzle: >>> Rudolf with Lights Bag >>> >>> Rudolf with Lights Bag >>> >>> by rclord >>> Teddy Bear in Town Card >>> >>> Teddy Bear in Town Card >>> >>> by rclord >>> ... at Redbubble: >>> >>> Buy my art >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >> >> > > Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts > ? > > ... at Zazzle: > Rudolf with Lights Bag > > Rudolf with Lights Bag > > by rclord > Teddy Bear in Town Card > > Teddy Bear in Town Card > > by rclord > ... at Redbubble: > > Buy my art > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > From maren at goos-habermann.de Wed Jan 3 16:34:28 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 01:34:28 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> Message-ID: <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> Am 03.01.2018 um 00:36 schrieb M R: > Hi Greg (and whomever else): > > > Thanks.? One of the follow-up questions I had is about the relationship > between a given Floss documentation project and the 'official' > documentation supported by that software's own organization.? - As for the Inkscape beginners' guide that we're creating here: write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/_draft/ It's official. We've started it (or rather, mostly translated it from French) because there is only a comprehensive manual available that is difficult to understand for people who are completely new to vector editing. The goal is to have an incomplete getting-started guide that allows everyone from any background and age group to make their first drawings in Inkscape. Videos are nice, but there are many people out there who still prefer being able to find the thing they need quickly, or to work through a book. I think age might also play a role. The original French book, on the other hand, has been written by Elisa de Castro Guerra (mostly, as far as I understand), probably for the same reasons, but as it was in French, it hasn't reached a very wide audience, and hasn't been adopted as an official resource (and I think there was no effort made in that direction). - As for the videos: Yes, having some moving visuals that show you what to do is a great help. So what I have done on my own website for Inkscape tutorials is a mix of media [1][2]: They are written tutorials mixed with animated gifs, and accompanied by an SVG file where users can try everything out on prepared examples. I've only had good feedback on them, but this type of thing is difficult to provide in a print format. People still buy books! Some do it to support the author, or the project, or to have something they can thumb through quickly. We don't yet have any version of the Inkscape beginners' guide released, it's still in draft state. Making videos that are didactically good requires different persons with different skills than those who gathered for the beginners' guide manual. Kind Regards, Maren [1] http://vektorrascheln.de/posts/2015/Dec/inkscape-fuer-einsteiger-teil-i-grundlagen-en.html [2] http://vektorrascheln.de/posts/2015/Dec/inkscape-fuer-einsteiger-teil-ii-praxis-en.html From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Thu Jan 4 01:04:25 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 09:04:25 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Hi there, I've got different hats on here. But one of my aims is to involve some of my University students in making manuals as a really productive learning activity. So that's another reason to lower the barriers to contributions via text and screenshot being the basis rather than video. And the ease of remixing / updating. Thanks Mick > -----Original Message----- > From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of > Maren Hachmann > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " From matrobnew at hotmail.com Thu Jan 4 13:04:08 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 21:04:08 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de>, <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mick (and all): That certainly makes sense. One thing that strikes me when I consider the concrete examples offered so far is that so many of them are centered on/driven by the needs of the FM contributors themselves (like you guys, but also going back to the founding), rather than hypothetical end-users outside of a specific context like the contributors' own teaching/workshops or other needs. Which is completely fine AFAIAK, since my own interest would be largely selfish -- I want manual-writing practice and portfolio samples ?; and if anyone else can get some use out of my contribution, that's great too. It does appear that the situation is a bit different for software like Inkscape (vs Audacity or Blender, or Unity, or Firefox) because Inkscape's own site appears to endorse the Floss manual as semi-official. So Inkscape might be the perfect example of a Floss manual where end-user utility is maximized. At the same time, it's also interesting that Inkscape's own site, in their 'Learning' tab, leans heavily as well on tutorials contributed by individuals in the user community, many of which are in video format. Actually, I'm not aware of any software site (certainly in the graphics world), whether open-source or proprietary, that doesn't make heavy use of video tutorials, however rich the text documentation is. I think this just speaks to a current diversity (maybe a transition -- we'll see) in end-user preferred learning modes. Now, for an open-source, collaborative framework like Floss, I would say your other point (Mick) is probably decisive: the text-and-screenshot type of manual is easily remixed/edited/updated, which is essentially impossible in video tutorials (except for wholesale replacement/update by the original maker, which is what ends up happening in practice). This isn't just about a difference in presentation technology, but about a fundamental difference in genre: traditional manuals, like all traditional tech writing, are intended to be anonymous, or neutrally voiced, such that any individual's contribution (given reasonable quality standards) should be transparent and interchangeable. Whereas the (literal) narrative 'voice' of a video tutorial is not only irreducibly singular, personal, non-anonymous; that's also precisely what makes them *engaging* for people who prefer to learn that way. I do wonder about a future (or on-going) convergence of the two modes: for instance many video tutorials are quite short now, focusing on very specific operations in a tool (even if they're then linked into longer series), which makes them more useful to a broader user base. I think if I were designing a text-based static manual from scratch, now--at least for software that featured complex GUI operations---I'd probably want every section to at least include curated links to such short vid tutorials or demonstrations (even if I had to generate some of these myself). But this already violates the anonymity principle...and at the same time it doesn't, IMO, go nearly far enough for some of the software uses I imagine documenting. Blender, for instance, is a 3D modeling tool that relies on such complex and finicky GUI operations that a series of text instructions and screenshots would, I think, be hopelessly inadequate to convey how to actually use it. There's still absolutely a place for textual Blender documentation, but I think it's more in the way of a reference dictionary than a manual as such. I even feel this way about Audacity. It's orders of magnitude less complex-finicky in its GUI than Blender, but if I wanted to convey how to do any kind of multi-track sound mixing and editing in order to build up an interesting sound-scape (and this is another document example I'm actively considering), I can't imagine doing this in any way but video. Again, though, this may simply speak to the way I personally have been learning software (and on a largely hobbyist basis, at that) for the past decade. I would be very interested, anyway, to see if anyone had come up with a framework for anonymized, open-source video tech documentation. Actually you could sort of do it with a tool like Adobe Captivate, using their 'software demonstration' mode and maybe a text-to-voice feature. Ok, nevermind... Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 2:04 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks Hi there, I've got different hats on here. But one of my aims is to involve some of my University students in making manuals as a really productive learning activity. So that's another reason to lower the barriers to contributions via text and screenshot being the basis rather than video. And the ease of remixing / updating. Thanks Mick > -----Original Message----- > From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of > Maren Hachmann > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maren at goos-habermann.de Thu Jan 4 14:13:53 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 23:13:53 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: <9349f418-b77a-d014-b820-05332d8b6b93@goos-habermann.de> Hey there, the Inkscape Beginners' Guide *is* official, as stated in my previous message :) Gifs (as described in that same message - maybe you didn't get it?) are a possible solution for having at least basic usage descriptions. They can't be very complex, but even the short animations are already very useful. But they don't work in print (and also not (yet?) in pdf), of course. I'm not sure if they'd play if included in a booktype html manual (in theory, they should, but who knows if it does any image postprocessing). Kind Regards, Maren Am 04.01.2018 um 22:04 schrieb M R: > Mick (and all): > > > That certainly makes sense.? One thing that strikes me when I consider > the concrete examples offered?so far is that so many of them are > centered on/driven by the needs of the FM contributors themselves (like > you guys, but also going back to the founding), rather than hypothetical > end-users outside of a specific context like the contributors' > own?teaching/workshops or other needs.? Which is completely fine AFAIAK, > since my own interest would be largely selfish -- I want manual-writing > practice and portfolio samples ?; and if anyone else can get some use > out of my contribution, that's great too.? It does appear that the > situation is a bit different for software like Inkscape (vs Audacity or > Blender, or Unity, or Firefox) because Inkscape's own site appears to > endorse the Floss manual as semi-official.? So Inkscape might be the > perfect example of a Floss manual where end-user utility is maximized. > > > At the same time, it's also interesting that Inkscape's own?site, in > their 'Learning' tab, leans heavily as well on tutorials contributed by > individuals in the user community, many of which are in video format.? > Actually, I'm not aware of any software site (certainly in the graphics > world), whether open-source or proprietary, that doesn't make heavy use > of video tutorials, however rich the text documentation is.? I think > this just speaks to a current?diversity (maybe a transition -- we'll > see)?in end-user preferred?learning modes.? Now, for an open-source, > collaborative framework like Floss, I would say your other point (Mick) > is probably decisive: the text-and-screenshot?type of manual is?easily > remixed/edited/updated, which is essentially impossible in video > tutorials (except for wholesale replacement/update by the original > maker, which is what ends up happening in practice).? ?This isn't just > about a difference in presentation technology, but about a fundamental > difference in genre: traditional manuals, like all traditional tech > writing, are intended to be anonymous, or neutrally voiced, such that > any individual's contribution (given reasonable quality standards) > should be transparent and interchangeable.? Whereas the (literal) > narrative 'voice' of a video tutorial is not only irreducibly singular, > personal, non-anonymous; that's also precisely what makes them > *engaging* for people who prefer to learn that way.?? > > > I do wonder about a future (or on-going) convergence of the two modes: > for instance many video tutorials are quite short now, focusing on very > specific operations in a tool (even if they're then linked into longer > series), which makes them more useful to a broader user base.? I think > if I were designing a text-based static?manual from scratch, now--at > least for software that featured complex GUI operations---I'd > probably?want every section to at least?include curated links to such > short vid tutorials or demonstrations (even if I had to generate some of > these myself).? But this already violates the anonymity principle...and > at the same time it doesn't, IMO, go nearly far enough for some of?the > software uses I imagine documenting.? Blender, for instance, is a 3D > modeling tool that relies on such complex and finicky GUI operations > that a series of text instructions and screenshots would, I think, be > hopelessly inadequate to convey how to actually?use it.? ?There's still > absolutely a place for textual Blender documentation, but I think it's > more in the way of a reference dictionary than a manual as such.? I even > feel this way about Audacity.? It's orders of magnitude less > complex-finicky in its GUI than Blender, but if I wanted to convey how > to do any kind of multi-track sound mixing and editing in order to build > up an interesting sound-scape?(and this is another document example I'm > actively considering), I can't imagine doing this in any way but video.? > Again, though, this may simply speak to the way I personally have been > learning software (and on?a largely?hobbyist basis, at that) for the > past decade.?? > > > I would be very interested, anyway, to see if anyone had come up with a > framework for anonymized, open-source video tech?documentation.? > Actually you could sort of?do it with a tool like Adobe Captivate, using > their 'software demonstration' mode and maybe a text-to-voice feature.? > Ok, nevermind... > > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Discuss on behalf of > Mick Chesterman > *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2018 2:04 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks > ? > Hi there, > > I've got different hats on here. > But one of my aims is to involve some of my University students in > making manuals as a really productive learning activity. > > So that's another reason to lower the barriers to contributions via text > and screenshot being the basis rather than video. And the ease of > remixing / updating. > > Thanks > Mick > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >> Maren Hachmann >> > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read > the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its > website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > you can unsubscribe here > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > From matrobnew at hotmail.com Thu Jan 4 15:52:47 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 23:52:47 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: <9349f418-b77a-d014-b820-05332d8b6b93@goos-habermann.de> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , <9349f418-b77a-d014-b820-05332d8b6b93@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: Hi Maren: Sorry, I did completely miss that earlier message of yours. The documenting process you've adopted looks really great, judging by your posted examples. Animated GIFs can definitely take us part of the way, at least. And you're absolutely right that video-tutorial production often takes more specialized (and different) skills to achieve the same quality standard as traditional text-and-screenshot -- although in my experience that's becoming less and less the case, as animation software (including screen-capture-animation software) becomes increasingly accessible. But still definitely a consideration, along with the one raised earlier about the difficulty of open-source-editing video documentation. And then, as you say, there is the question of what animation files could work with or be embedded within largely textual (but still digital) documents. I was surprised to learn, when I started working with eLearning authoring tools, that Flash files of any complexity (even interactive) can be embedded in PDFs, as generated by Adobe Captivate (and I assume Articulate Storyline too). People actually send complete eLearning courses and modules around to each other as PDFs all the time. And certainly it is generally possible to embed Flash files in html--that was the whole idea of Flash--although I don't know the details of Booktype hmtl either. The challenge there is that Flash itself is becoming deprecated, since it doesn't work on most mobile devices. But short animated screen captures could (and are) also done as mp4 and .mov files, and those both can be embedded in PDF and html too. Btw, and back to my earlier point about increased accessibility, it would take an absolute novice about 15 minutes to learn how to use the screen-capture-video feature of Adobe Captivate; the only real barrier there is the price of the software itself. But there is lots of freeware for the same purpose---I've used Screenpresso myself to do screen capture vids for user testing, as well as static screen shots. What Captivate adds is the ability to easily edit and annotate your screen vids, but I'm sure there's free software for that too. Obviously none of this helps for documents that you intend to print out, but that pretty much goes without saying, and it seems that less and less tech writing practice in general is based around the assumption of printed material as opposed to digital. So the questions are probably more about the best ways to integrate textual/static and animated presentation modes in the same document--or maybe not the *same* document, but within a single presentation flow or structure which we could still call a 'manual'. best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 3:13 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks Hey there, the Inkscape Beginners' Guide *is* official, as stated in my previous message :) Gifs (as described in that same message - maybe you didn't get it?) are a possible solution for having at least basic usage descriptions. They can't be very complex, but even the short animations are already very useful. But they don't work in print (and also not (yet?) in pdf), of course. I'm not sure if they'd play if included in a booktype html manual (in theory, they should, but who knows if it does any image postprocessing). Kind Regards, Maren Am 04.01.2018 um 22:04 schrieb M R: > Mick (and all): > > > That certainly makes sense. One thing that strikes me when I consider > the concrete examples offered so far is that so many of them are > centered on/driven by the needs of the FM contributors themselves (like > you guys, but also going back to the founding), rather than hypothetical > end-users outside of a specific context like the contributors' > own teaching/workshops or other needs. Which is completely fine AFAIAK, > since my own interest would be largely selfish -- I want manual-writing > practice and portfolio samples ?; and if anyone else can get some use > out of my contribution, that's great too. It does appear that the > situation is a bit different for software like Inkscape (vs Audacity or > Blender, or Unity, or Firefox) because Inkscape's own site appears to > endorse the Floss manual as semi-official. So Inkscape might be the > perfect example of a Floss manual where end-user utility is maximized. > > > At the same time, it's also interesting that Inkscape's own site, in > their 'Learning' tab, leans heavily as well on tutorials contributed by > individuals in the user community, many of which are in video format. > Actually, I'm not aware of any software site (certainly in the graphics > world), whether open-source or proprietary, that doesn't make heavy use > of video tutorials, however rich the text documentation is. I think > this just speaks to a current diversity (maybe a transition -- we'll > see) in end-user preferred learning modes. Now, for an open-source, > collaborative framework like Floss, I would say your other point (Mick) > is probably decisive: the text-and-screenshot type of manual is easily > remixed/edited/updated, which is essentially impossible in video > tutorials (except for wholesale replacement/update by the original > maker, which is what ends up happening in practice). This isn't just > about a difference in presentation technology, but about a fundamental > difference in genre: traditional manuals, like all traditional tech > writing, are intended to be anonymous, or neutrally voiced, such that > any individual's contribution (given reasonable quality standards) > should be transparent and interchangeable. Whereas the (literal) > narrative 'voice' of a video tutorial is not only irreducibly singular, > personal, non-anonymous; that's also precisely what makes them > *engaging* for people who prefer to learn that way. > > > I do wonder about a future (or on-going) convergence of the two modes: > for instance many video tutorials are quite short now, focusing on very > specific operations in a tool (even if they're then linked into longer > series), which makes them more useful to a broader user base. I think > if I were designing a text-based static manual from scratch, now--at > least for software that featured complex GUI operations---I'd > probably want every section to at least include curated links to such > short vid tutorials or demonstrations (even if I had to generate some of > these myself). But this already violates the anonymity principle...and > at the same time it doesn't, IMO, go nearly far enough for some of the > software uses I imagine documenting. Blender, for instance, is a 3D > modeling tool that relies on such complex and finicky GUI operations > that a series of text instructions and screenshots would, I think, be > hopelessly inadequate to convey how to actually use it. There's still > absolutely a place for textual Blender documentation, but I think it's > more in the way of a reference dictionary than a manual as such. I even > feel this way about Audacity. It's orders of magnitude less > complex-finicky in its GUI than Blender, but if I wanted to convey how > to do any kind of multi-track sound mixing and editing in order to build > up an interesting sound-scape (and this is another document example I'm > actively considering), I can't imagine doing this in any way but video. > Again, though, this may simply speak to the way I personally have been > learning software (and on a largely hobbyist basis, at that) for the > past decade. > > > I would be very interested, anyway, to see if anyone had come up with a > framework for anonymized, open-source video tech documentation. > Actually you could sort of do it with a tool like Adobe Captivate, using > their 'software demonstration' mode and maybe a text-to-voice feature. > Ok, nevermind... > > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Discuss on behalf of > Mick Chesterman > *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2018 2:04 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks > > Hi there, > > I've got different hats on here. > But one of my aims is to involve some of my University students in > making manuals as a really productive learning activity. > > So that's another reason to lower the barriers to contributions via text > and screenshot being the basis rather than video. And the ease of > remixing / updating. > > Thanks > Mick > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >> Maren Hachmann >> > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read > the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its > website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > you can unsubscribe here > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From williamk at dut.ac.za Thu Jan 4 22:48:27 2018 From: williamk at dut.ac.za (William Walter Kinghorn) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 06:48:27 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] Hi folks In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , <9349f418-b77a-d014-b820-05332d8b6b93@goos-habermann.de>, Message-ID: <1515134906868.20343@dut.ac.za> Hi All, https://obsproject.com/ Free and open source software for video recording and live streaming. Download and start streaming quickly and easily on Windows, Mac or Linux. If you use Linux, search your repo for "video recording", OBS and other screen recording software might be there William ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 05 January 2018 01:52 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks Hi Maren: Sorry, I did completely miss that earlier message of yours. The documenting process you've adopted looks really great, judging by your posted examples. Animated GIFs can definitely take us part of the way, at least. And you're absolutely right that video-tutorial production often takes more specialized (and different) skills to achieve the same quality standard as traditional text-and-screenshot -- although in my experience that's becoming less and less the case, as animation software (including screen-capture-animation software) becomes increasingly accessible. But still definitely a consideration, along with the one raised earlier about the difficulty of open-source-editing video documentation. And then, as you say, there is the question of what animation files could work with or be embedded within largely textual (but still digital) documents. I was surprised to learn, when I started working with eLearning authoring tools, that Flash files of any complexity (even interactive) can be embedded in PDFs, as generated by Adobe Captivate (and I assume Articulate Storyline too). People actually send complete eLearning courses and modules around to each other as PDFs all the time. And certainly it is generally possible to embed Flash files in html--that was the whole idea of Flash--although I don't know the details of Booktype hmtl either. The challenge there is that Flash itself is becoming deprecated, since it doesn't work on most mobile devices. But short animated screen captures could (and are) also done as mp4 and .mov files, and those both can be embedded in PDF and html too. Btw, and back to my earlier point about increased accessibility, it would take an absolute novice about 15 minutes to learn how to use the screen-capture-video feature of Adobe Captivate; the only real barrier there is the price of the software itself. But there is lots of freeware for the same purpose---I've used Screenpresso myself to do screen capture vids for user testing, as well as static screen shots. What Captivate adds is the ability to easily edit and annotate your screen vids, but I'm sure there's free software for that too. Obviously none of this helps for documents that you intend to print out, but that pretty much goes without saying, and it seems that less and less tech writing practice in general is based around the assumption of printed material as opposed to digital. So the questions are probably more about the best ways to integrate textual/static and animated presentation modes in the same document--or maybe not the *same* document, but within a single presentation flow or structure which we could still call a 'manual'. best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 3:13 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks Hey there, the Inkscape Beginners' Guide *is* official, as stated in my previous message :) Gifs (as described in that same message - maybe you didn't get it?) are a possible solution for having at least basic usage descriptions. They can't be very complex, but even the short animations are already very useful. But they don't work in print (and also not (yet?) in pdf), of course. I'm not sure if they'd play if included in a booktype html manual (in theory, they should, but who knows if it does any image postprocessing). Kind Regards, Maren Am 04.01.2018 um 22:04 schrieb M R: > Mick (and all): > > > That certainly makes sense. One thing that strikes me when I consider > the concrete examples offered so far is that so many of them are > centered on/driven by the needs of the FM contributors themselves (like > you guys, but also going back to the founding), rather than hypothetical > end-users outside of a specific context like the contributors' > own teaching/workshops or other needs. Which is completely fine AFAIAK, > since my own interest would be largely selfish -- I want manual-writing > practice and portfolio samples ?; and if anyone else can get some use > out of my contribution, that's great too. It does appear that the > situation is a bit different for software like Inkscape (vs Audacity or > Blender, or Unity, or Firefox) because Inkscape's own site appears to > endorse the Floss manual as semi-official. So Inkscape might be the > perfect example of a Floss manual where end-user utility is maximized. > > > At the same time, it's also interesting that Inkscape's own site, in > their 'Learning' tab, leans heavily as well on tutorials contributed by > individuals in the user community, many of which are in video format. > Actually, I'm not aware of any software site (certainly in the graphics > world), whether open-source or proprietary, that doesn't make heavy use > of video tutorials, however rich the text documentation is. I think > this just speaks to a current diversity (maybe a transition -- we'll > see) in end-user preferred learning modes. Now, for an open-source, > collaborative framework like Floss, I would say your other point (Mick) > is probably decisive: the text-and-screenshot type of manual is easily > remixed/edited/updated, which is essentially impossible in video > tutorials (except for wholesale replacement/update by the original > maker, which is what ends up happening in practice). This isn't just > about a difference in presentation technology, but about a fundamental > difference in genre: traditional manuals, like all traditional tech > writing, are intended to be anonymous, or neutrally voiced, such that > any individual's contribution (given reasonable quality standards) > should be transparent and interchangeable. Whereas the (literal) > narrative 'voice' of a video tutorial is not only irreducibly singular, > personal, non-anonymous; that's also precisely what makes them > *engaging* for people who prefer to learn that way. > > > I do wonder about a future (or on-going) convergence of the two modes: > for instance many video tutorials are quite short now, focusing on very > specific operations in a tool (even if they're then linked into longer > series), which makes them more useful to a broader user base. I think > if I were designing a text-based static manual from scratch, now--at > least for software that featured complex GUI operations---I'd > probably want every section to at least include curated links to such > short vid tutorials or demonstrations (even if I had to generate some of > these myself). But this already violates the anonymity principle...and > at the same time it doesn't, IMO, go nearly far enough for some of the > software uses I imagine documenting. Blender, for instance, is a 3D > modeling tool that relies on such complex and finicky GUI operations > that a series of text instructions and screenshots would, I think, be > hopelessly inadequate to convey how to actually use it. There's still > absolutely a place for textual Blender documentation, but I think it's > more in the way of a reference dictionary than a manual as such. I even > feel this way about Audacity. It's orders of magnitude less > complex-finicky in its GUI than Blender, but if I wanted to convey how > to do any kind of multi-track sound mixing and editing in order to build > up an interesting sound-scape (and this is another document example I'm > actively considering), I can't imagine doing this in any way but video. > Again, though, this may simply speak to the way I personally have been > learning software (and on a largely hobbyist basis, at that) for the > past decade. > > > I would be very interested, anyway, to see if anyone had come up with a > framework for anonymized, open-source video tech documentation. > Actually you could sort of do it with a tool like Adobe Captivate, using > their 'software demonstration' mode and maybe a text-to-voice feature. > Ok, nevermind... > > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Discuss on behalf of > Mick Chesterman > *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2018 2:04 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] Hi folks > > Hi there, > > I've got different hats on here. > But one of my aims is to involve some of my University students in > making manuals as a really productive learning activity. > > So that's another reason to lower the barriers to contributions via text > and screenshot being the basis rather than video. And the ease of > remixing / updating. > > Thanks > Mick > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >> Maren Hachmann >> > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read > the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its > website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > you can unsubscribe here > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here ________________________________ "This e-mail is subject to our Disclaimer, to view click http://www.dut.ac.za/disclaimer" Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and automatically archived by Mimecast SA (Pty) Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Mimecast Unified Email Management (UEM) offers email continuity, security, archiving and compliance with all current legislation. To find out more, visit http://www.mimecast.co.za/uem. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 17:09:07 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 01:09:07 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de>, <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 17:11:34 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 01:11:34 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de>, <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk>, Message-ID: Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as much as Mick. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rclord at seaserpent.com Fri Jan 5 17:22:34 2018 From: rclord at seaserpent.com (Rosalind Lord) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 17:22:34 -0800 Subject: [FM Discuss] introducing myself In-Reply-To: References: <7900B194-AA41-49BA-BC69-FBD51D80B6CE@seaserpent.com> <3222e786-5fc8-d432-9163-616dc1bfa900@goos-habermann.de> <4ce1d8af-6c3f-ed1e-3a40-322082856a11@goos-habermann.de> <1A97244B-DF95-4669-A4CF-1A61BB7A3694@seaserpent.com> <336aaa01-110f-992b-2f78-0990417b4a57@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: Even if the screenshots are about installing things on Mac? > On Jan 3, 2018, at 3:59 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote: > > For screenshot-making, you should be using a Windows computer. But what > you could do on your Mac is prepare the drawings that can be screen-shot > (?) by someone with a Windows machine. Check out the chapters that we > have, look for images that require translation and contain a drawing, > then prepare a drawing and let us know here: > https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/issues/16 > > Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? ... at Zazzle: New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maren at goos-habermann.de Fri Jan 5 18:11:51 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 03:11:51 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] introducing myself In-Reply-To: References: <7900B194-AA41-49BA-BC69-FBD51D80B6CE@seaserpent.com> <3222e786-5fc8-d432-9163-616dc1bfa900@goos-habermann.de> <4ce1d8af-6c3f-ed1e-3a40-322082856a11@goos-habermann.de> <1A97244B-DF95-4669-A4CF-1A61BB7A3694@seaserpent.com> <336aaa01-110f-992b-2f78-0990417b4a57@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: Am 06.01.2018 um 02:22 schrieb Rosalind Lord: > Even if the screenshots are about installing things on Mac? - I'd say that's impossible...? It's different for the other screenshots in other chapters that we've been talking about when discussing the tasks you'd like to tackle next. As the book is geared to beginner users, and most of them use Windows, the thinking is 1. to not distract them with an unfamiliar interface. Some non-technical people get very confused at buttons looking different from what they are used to. 2. to keep screenshots in the same design throughout the book. Maren > >> On Jan 3, 2018, at 3:59 PM, Maren Hachmann > > wrote: >> >> For screenshot-making, you should be using a Windows computer. But what >> you could do on your Mac is prepare the drawings that can be screen-shot >> (?) by someone with a Windows machine. Check out the chapters that we >> have, look for images that require translation and contain a drawing, >> then prepare a drawing and let us know here: >> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/issues/16 >> >> > > Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts > ? > > ... at Zazzle: > New Year Clock Card > New Year Clock Card > ... at Redbubble: > > Buy my art > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rclord at seaserpent.com Fri Jan 5 18:26:03 2018 From: rclord at seaserpent.com (Rosalind Lord) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 18:26:03 -0800 Subject: [FM Discuss] introducing myself In-Reply-To: References: <7900B194-AA41-49BA-BC69-FBD51D80B6CE@seaserpent.com> <3222e786-5fc8-d432-9163-616dc1bfa900@goos-habermann.de> <4ce1d8af-6c3f-ed1e-3a40-322082856a11@goos-habermann.de> <1A97244B-DF95-4669-A4CF-1A61BB7A3694@seaserpent.com> <336aaa01-110f-992b-2f78-0990417b4a57@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: So it?s OK to make screenshots on a Mac if the chapter is about installing on a Mac, but all the other chapters should have a Windows-like look. Just want to make sure I?m correct on this. I don?t have access to a Windows machine right now, but would it be OK for me to use a program that simulate Windows on my Mac, such as Virtual Box, to make the screenshots? > On Jan 5, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Maren Hachmann wrote: > > Am 06.01.2018 um 02:22 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >> Even if the screenshots are about installing things on Mac? > > - I'd say that's impossible...? > > It's different for the other screenshots in other chapters that we've > been talking about when discussing the tasks you'd like to tackle next. > > As the book is geared to beginner users, and most of them use Windows, > the thinking is > 1. to not distract them with an unfamiliar interface. Some non-technical > people get very confused at buttons looking different from what they are > used to. > 2. to keep screenshots in the same design throughout the book. > > Maren > > > >> >>> On Jan 3, 2018, at 3:59 PM, Maren Hachmann >> > wrote: >>> >>> For screenshot-making, you should be using a Windows computer. But what >>> you could do on your Mac is prepare the drawings that can be screen-shot >>> (?) by someone with a Windows machine. Check out the chapters that we >>> have, look for images that require translation and contain a drawing, >>> then prepare a drawing and let us know here: >>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/issues/16 >>> >>> >> >> Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts >> ? >> >> ... at Zazzle: >> New Year Clock Card >> New Year Clock Card >> ... at Redbubble: >> >> Buy my art >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? ... at Zazzle: New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Sun Jan 7 00:35:06 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 08:35:06 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de>, <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk>, , Message-ID: <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> Hi Matt, That sounds good, Unfortunately as I migrated 95% of the books in from the last system, I'm down as the owner for all of those. I would say that where possible it would be good to take out references to software version numbers when we come across them. Thanks Mick ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 06 January 2018 01:11 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as much as Mick. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ?? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maren at goos-habermann.de Sun Jan 7 12:30:52 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 21:30:52 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] introducing myself In-Reply-To: References: <7900B194-AA41-49BA-BC69-FBD51D80B6CE@seaserpent.com> <3222e786-5fc8-d432-9163-616dc1bfa900@goos-habermann.de> <4ce1d8af-6c3f-ed1e-3a40-322082856a11@goos-habermann.de> <1A97244B-DF95-4669-A4CF-1A61BB7A3694@seaserpent.com> <336aaa01-110f-992b-2f78-0990417b4a57@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: Hi Rosalind, I've updated the screenshot issue description here to account for your question about using virtualization: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/issues/16 Also had time for a quick review, please find it at the issue you opened on gitlab: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/issues/20 Thank you for your help with this! Kind Regards, Maren Am 06.01.2018 um 03:26 schrieb Rosalind Lord: > So it?s OK to make screenshots on a Mac if the chapter is about > installing on a Mac, but all the other chapters should have a > Windows-like look. > > Just want to make sure I?m correct on this. > > I don?t have access to a Windows machine right now, but would it be OK > for me to use a program that simulate Windows on my Mac, such as Virtual > Box, to make the screenshots? > >> On Jan 5, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Maren Hachmann > > wrote: >> >> Am 06.01.2018 um 02:22 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >>> Even if the screenshots are about installing things on Mac? >> >> - I'd say that's impossible...? >> >> It's different for the other screenshots in other chapters that we've >> been talking about when discussing the tasks you'd like to tackle next. >> >> As the book is geared to beginner users, and most of them use Windows, >> the thinking is >> 1. to not distract them with an unfamiliar interface. Some non-technical >> people get very confused at buttons looking different from what they are >> used to. >> 2. to keep screenshots in the same design throughout the book. >> >> Maren >> >> >> >>> >>>> On Jan 3, 2018, at 3:59 PM, Maren Hachmann >>> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> For screenshot-making, you should be using a Windows computer. But what >>>> you could do on your Mac is prepare the drawings that can be screen-shot >>>> (?) by someone with a Windows machine. Check out the chapters that we >>>> have, look for images that require translation and contain a drawing, >>>> then prepare a drawing and let us know here: >>>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/issues/16 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts >>> ? >>> >>> ... at Zazzle: >>> New Year Clock Card >>> >>> New Year Clock Card >>> >>> ... at Redbubble: >>> >>> Buy my art >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >> you can unsubscribe here > > Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts > ? > > ... at Zazzle: > New Year Clock Card > New Year Clock Card > ... at Redbubble: > > Buy my art > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > From matrobnew at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 22:19:21 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 06:19:21 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de>, <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk>, , , <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mick: Ok, this is well underway, though it's going to take some time as there is fairly major delta between Audacity 1.x and 2.2, with a great deal of feature rearranging and many outright new features, which I'm having to spin up on through a mix of experimentation and appeal to the audacity org documentation. But it's exactly the sort of practice I wanted, and I need it now so the rewrite will move ahead with all deliberate speed. I haven't tackled the tutorials part yet, and can't swear that I'll keep the original tasks exactly as they were, but all the basic chapter subjects will certainly be preserved. Btw, I'm not completely sold on the idea of eliminating all references to release/version numbers, which currently appear at the start of each chapter and a few other places. If someone tried to use the current manual and didn't realize it was years out of date, they'd be lost in some fairly important ways. Clearly the need for this kind of update is burdensome, and I wouldn't advocate it in the Floss context for more than maybe first-order versions (ie 1.x vs 2.x), but I'm not seeing any good purpose to burying the delta itself. Can you share your thinking on this? best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:35 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt, That sounds good, Unfortunately as I migrated 95% of the books in from the last system, I'm down as the owner for all of those. I would say that where possible it would be good to take out references to software version numbers when we come across them. Thanks Mick ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 06 January 2018 01:11 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as much as Mick. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Tue Jan 9 20:11:49 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 04:11:49 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite Message-ID: Hi folks: Looking for a Mac user, ideally with some awareness of the Audacity tool, though perhaps no previous experience at all would be just as helpful. I am in the process of rewriting the Audacity manual to reflect the fairly substantial changes from the initial (1.x) release to the latest (2.2.1). There are specific chapters on installation for Ubuntu and Mac OS that I cannot address, having no access at present to either OS. In addition, the chapter on Recording includes a long section on configuring your Mac for recording with Audacity (a bunch of specific steps you needn't take with Windows or Linux). Looking at the official Audacity documentation, it appears to me that much in this section no longer applies, but I can't tell for sure without Mac access. And to the extent that any of this Mac-specific recording config is still necessary, we'd need a Mac anyway to generate the new screenshots where necessary (and I'm guessing they would be, as I've had to replace every single Windows screenshot in the manual with a new one). So, any help on this score would be appreciated. The Mac and Ubuntu installation chapters, and this part of the Recording chapter, are the only parts I think can't be adequately covered with a Windows machine. thanks, Matt Roberts -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rclord at seaserpent.com Tue Jan 9 22:20:05 2018 From: rclord at seaserpent.com (Rosalind Lord) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 22:20:05 -0800 Subject: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I?d be happy to help out with this, since I?m a big Mac user, and have been one for years. I have dabbled with Audacity a little bit. - Rosalind > On Jan 9, 2018, at 8:11 PM, M R wrote: > > Hi folks: > > Looking for a Mac user, ideally with some awareness of the Audacity tool, though perhaps no previous experience at all would be just as helpful. > > I am in the process of rewriting the Audacity manual to reflect the fairly substantial changes from the initial (1.x) release to the latest (2.2.1). There are specific chapters on installation for Ubuntu and Mac OS that I cannot address, having no access at present to either OS. In addition, the chapter on Recording includes a long section on configuring your Mac for recording with Audacity (a bunch of specific steps you needn't take with Windows or Linux). Looking at the official Audacity documentation, it appears to me that much in this section no longer applies, but I can't tell for sure without Mac access. And to the extent that any of this Mac-specific recording config is still necessary, we'd need a Mac anyway to generate the new screenshots where necessary (and I'm guessing they would be, as I've had to replace every single Windows screenshot in the manual with a new one). So, any help on this score would be appreciated. The Mac and Ubuntu installation chapters, and this part of the Recording chapter, are the only parts I think can't be adequately covered with a Windows machine. > > thanks, > > Matt Roberts > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? ... at Zazzle: New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Tue Jan 9 23:17:28 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 07:17:28 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: that would be great, Rosalind, thanks. Let me know if you need anything from me. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Rosalind Lord Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:20 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite I?d be happy to help out with this, since I?m a big Mac user, and have been one for years. I have dabbled with Audacity a little bit. - Rosalind On Jan 9, 2018, at 8:11 PM, M R > wrote: Hi folks: Looking for a Mac user, ideally with some awareness of the Audacity tool, though perhaps no previous experience at all would be just as helpful. I am in the process of rewriting the Audacity manual to reflect the fairly substantial changes from the initial (1.x) release to the latest (2.2.1). There are specific chapters on installation for Ubuntu and Mac OS that I cannot address, having no access at present to either OS. In addition, the chapter on Recording includes a long section on configuring your Mac for recording with Audacity (a bunch of specific steps you needn't take with Windows or Linux). Looking at the official Audacity documentation, it appears to me that much in this section no longer applies, but I can't tell for sure without Mac access. And to the extent that any of this Mac-specific recording config is still necessary, we'd need a Mac anyway to generate the new screenshots where necessary (and I'm guessing they would be, as I've had to replace every single Windows screenshot in the manual with a new one). So, any help on this score would be appreciated. The Mac and Ubuntu installation chapters, and this part of the Recording chapter, are the only parts I think can't be adequately covered with a Windows machine. thanks, Matt Roberts _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Wed Jan 10 01:26:55 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 09:26:55 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de>, <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk>, , , <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Hi there, Regarding not including version numbers. It?s not a strong opinion but it?s based on some software which changes version a lot but not necessarily function. In that case it can mean the process of patching up docs and just making small changes where there is new functionality is harder, or may appear harder as an editor may think they need to update the whole manual which might be too big a job for them to take on, or at least to finish. In any case I would trust your judgement on this for the Audacity manuals. Thx Mick From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 08 January 2018 06:19 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: Ok, this is well underway, though it's going to take some time as there is fairly major delta between Audacity 1.x and 2.2, with a great deal of feature rearranging and many outright new features, which I'm having to spin up on through a mix of experimentation and appeal to the audacity org documentation. But it's exactly the sort of practice I wanted, and I need it now so the rewrite will move ahead with all deliberate speed. I haven't tackled the tutorials part yet, and can't swear that I'll keep the original tasks exactly as they were, but all the basic chapter subjects will certainly be preserved. Btw, I'm not completely sold on the idea of eliminating all references to release/version numbers, which currently appear at the start of each chapter and a few other places. If someone tried to use the current manual and didn't realize it was years out of date, they'd be lost in some fairly important ways. Clearly the need for this kind of update is burdensome, and I wouldn't advocate it in the Floss context for more than maybe first-order versions (ie 1.x vs 2.x), but I'm not seeing any good purpose to burying the delta itself. Can you share your thinking on this? best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:35 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt, That sounds good, Unfortunately as I migrated 95% of the books in from the last system, I'm down as the owner for all of those. I would say that where possible it would be good to take out references to software version numbers when we come across them. Thanks Mick ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: 06 January 2018 01:11 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as much as Mick. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 04:52:11 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:52:11 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de>, <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk>, , , <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> , <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mick: I agree that what's important to the end user is feature and function, not version/release number as such. Certainly incremental releases (like the difference between 2.2.1 and 2.2.2) don't typically merit an update to the documentation. But here we're talking essentially about the delta between an initial stable release (1.1) and a release some years later (2.x); and having nearly completed the revision I can say that about 40% of the functionality is new altogether, and much of the rest has new GUI look/feel and arrangement, and/or is found in a new place in the main menu system than in the first release. When and if the time comes, we'll see what the delta is between 2.x and 3.x; but I'm guessing a new revision of the FM would be appropriate then too. Meanwhile users of the newly-revised book will at least know they are dealing with the Audacity feature-set as of late 2017. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:26 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi there, Regarding not including version numbers. It?s not a strong opinion but it?s based on some software which changes version a lot but not necessarily function. In that case it can mean the process of patching up docs and just making small changes where there is new functionality is harder, or may appear harder as an editor may think they need to update the whole manual which might be too big a job for them to take on, or at least to finish. In any case I would trust your judgement on this for the Audacity manuals. Thx Mick From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 08 January 2018 06:19 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: Ok, this is well underway, though it's going to take some time as there is fairly major delta between Audacity 1.x and 2.2, with a great deal of feature rearranging and many outright new features, which I'm having to spin up on through a mix of experimentation and appeal to the audacity org documentation. But it's exactly the sort of practice I wanted, and I need it now so the rewrite will move ahead with all deliberate speed. I haven't tackled the tutorials part yet, and can't swear that I'll keep the original tasks exactly as they were, but all the basic chapter subjects will certainly be preserved. Btw, I'm not completely sold on the idea of eliminating all references to release/version numbers, which currently appear at the start of each chapter and a few other places. If someone tried to use the current manual and didn't realize it was years out of date, they'd be lost in some fairly important ways. Clearly the need for this kind of update is burdensome, and I wouldn't advocate it in the Floss context for more than maybe first-order versions (ie 1.x vs 2.x), but I'm not seeing any good purpose to burying the delta itself. Can you share your thinking on this? best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:35 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt, That sounds good, Unfortunately as I migrated 95% of the books in from the last system, I'm down as the owner for all of those. I would say that where possible it would be good to take out references to software version numbers when we come across them. Thanks Mick ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: 06 January 2018 01:11 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as much as Mick. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mick at flossmanuals.net Wed Jan 10 13:35:56 2018 From: mick at flossmanuals.net (mick at flossmanuals.net) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 21:35:56 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: This sounds great! On 10/01/18 12:52, M R wrote: > > Hi Mick: > > > I agree that what's important to the end user is feature and function, > not version/release number as such. Certainly incremental releases > (like the difference between 2.2.1 and 2.2.2) don't typically merit an > update to the documentation. But here we're talking essentially about > the delta between an initial stable release (1.1) and a release some > years later (2.x); and having nearly completed the revision I can say > that about 40% of the functionality is new altogether, and much of the > rest has new GUI look/feel and arrangement, and/or is found in a new > place in the main menu system than in the first release. When and if > the time comes, we'll see what the delta is between 2.x and 3.x; but > I'm guessing a new revision of the FM would be appropriate then too. > Meanwhile users of the newly-revised book will at least know they are > dealing with the Audacity feature-set as of late 2017. > > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Discuss on behalf of > Mick Chesterman > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:26 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > Hi there, > > > > Regarding not including version numbers. > > It?s not a strong opinion but it?s based on some software which > changes version a lot but not necessarily function. > > In that case it can mean the process of patching up docs and just > making small changes where there is new functionality is harder, or > may appear harder as an editor may think they need to update the whole > manual which might be too big a job for them to take on, or at least > to finish. > > In any case I would trust your judgement on this for the Audacity > manuals. // > > > > Thx > > Mick > > *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On > Behalf Of *M R > *Sent:* 08 January 2018 06:19 > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Mick: > > > > Ok, this is well underway, though it's going to take some time as > there is fairly major delta between Audacity 1.x and 2.2, with a great > deal of feature rearranging and many outright new features, which I'm > having to spin up on through a mix of experimentation and appeal to > the audacity org documentation. But it's exactly the sort of practice > I wanted, and I need it now so the rewrite will move ahead with all > deliberate speed. I haven't tackled the tutorials part yet, and can't > swear that I'll keep the original tasks exactly as they were, but > all the basic chapter subjects will certainly be preserved. > > > > Btw, I'm not completely sold on the idea of eliminating all references > to release/version numbers, which currently appear at the start of > each chapter and a few other places. If someone tried to use the > current manual and didn't realize it was years out of date, they'd be > lost in some fairly important ways. Clearly the need for this kind of > update is burdensome, and I wouldn't advocate it in the Floss context > for more than maybe first-order versions (ie 1.x vs 2.x), but I'm not > seeing any good purpose to burying the delta itself. Can you share > your thinking on this? > > > > best, > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of Mick > Chesterman > > *Sent:* Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:35 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Hi Matt, > > > > That sounds good, > > > > Unfortunately as I migrated 95% of the books in from the last system, > I'm down as the owner for all of those. > > > > I would say that where possible it would be good to take out > references to software version numbers when we come across them. > > > > Thanks > > Mick > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of M R > > > *Sent:* 06 January 2018 01:11 > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in > June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as > much as Mick. > > > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of M R > > > *Sent:* Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > *Subject:* [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Hi Mick: > > > > One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In > that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that > book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year > you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version > 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the > extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other > than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So > would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to > update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to > 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the > existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just > addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? > > > > Matt > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available > on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 12:17:28 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 20:17:28 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , Message-ID: Mick: I've completed my revisions to the Audacity manual--at least everything I could do from a Windows machine. Rosalind Lord has agreed to address the Mac-specific install chapter and Recording config instructions. There's also a Linux/Ubuntu install chapter, which someone in that world will need to update (at least with screenshots, if all the info itself is still current). But the other 90% or so has been redone, with new screenshots throughout (Windows-based; in the old manual they were Linux-based, but it's my rewrite so I'm the Decider in this case ?). As for the writing, since there was so much feature change and addition from 1.x to 2.2, a good deal of the text has been rewritten as well. So someone with veteran FM eyes will want to take a look, to make sure I haven't strayed too much either stylistically or in terms of depth of coverage. I have relied heavily both on my own experimentation with Audacity 2.2, and where necessary on official Audacity documentation. In the latter case, where I've borrowed specific information I've paraphrased language wherever possible (being an English/composition professor, I know the rules), though in some specific places clarity and precision has dictated that I follow their wording. In some cases, where a topic is dealt with much more exhaustively in their documentation than it was in the earlier version of the Floss manual, I've linked to the relevant pages in their site (in the old manual, this was only done once in the appendix, and I don't know if you have best-practice guidance on this, but it seemed like the most useful thing to do). Anyway, there it is. I'm happy to revise based on any feedback. best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of mick at flossmanuals.net Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:35 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book This sounds great! On 10/01/18 12:52, M R wrote: Hi Mick: I agree that what's important to the end user is feature and function, not version/release number as such. Certainly incremental releases (like the difference between 2.2.1 and 2.2.2) don't typically merit an update to the documentation. But here we're talking essentially about the delta between an initial stable release (1.1) and a release some years later (2.x); and having nearly completed the revision I can say that about 40% of the functionality is new altogether, and much of the rest has new GUI look/feel and arrangement, and/or is found in a new place in the main menu system than in the first release. When and if the time comes, we'll see what the delta is between 2.x and 3.x; but I'm guessing a new revision of the FM would be appropriate then too. Meanwhile users of the newly-revised book will at least know they are dealing with the Audacity feature-set as of late 2017. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:26 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi there, Regarding not including version numbers. It?s not a strong opinion but it?s based on some software which changes version a lot but not necessarily function. In that case it can mean the process of patching up docs and just making small changes where there is new functionality is harder, or may appear harder as an editor may think they need to update the whole manual which might be too big a job for them to take on, or at least to finish. In any case I would trust your judgement on this for the Audacity manuals. Thx Mick From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 08 January 2018 06:19 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: Ok, this is well underway, though it's going to take some time as there is fairly major delta between Audacity 1.x and 2.2, with a great deal of feature rearranging and many outright new features, which I'm having to spin up on through a mix of experimentation and appeal to the audacity org documentation. But it's exactly the sort of practice I wanted, and I need it now so the rewrite will move ahead with all deliberate speed. I haven't tackled the tutorials part yet, and can't swear that I'll keep the original tasks exactly as they were, but all the basic chapter subjects will certainly be preserved. Btw, I'm not completely sold on the idea of eliminating all references to release/version numbers, which currently appear at the start of each chapter and a few other places. If someone tried to use the current manual and didn't realize it was years out of date, they'd be lost in some fairly important ways. Clearly the need for this kind of update is burdensome, and I wouldn't advocate it in the Floss context for more than maybe first-order versions (ie 1.x vs 2.x), but I'm not seeing any good purpose to burying the delta itself. Can you share your thinking on this? best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:35 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt, That sounds good, Unfortunately as I migrated 95% of the books in from the last system, I'm down as the owner for all of those. I would say that where possible it would be good to take out references to software version numbers when we come across them. Thanks Mick ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: 06 January 2018 01:11 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as much as Mick. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Fri Jan 12 02:14:10 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:14:10 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , , Message-ID: <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> Hi Matt this is fantastic, In terms of best practice, there isn't any official guidance to follow, It is more of an emerging sharing of practice and negociation. So as the person taking the lead on this you are free to use your best judgement. I'd be happy to have a look at it though as soon as I can and share thoughts. One thought I had is that as the official audacity manual is "Copyright: Unless otherwise noted, all pages in this Manual are available under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license. " then you would be free to include chunks if you wanted to, just link back to the sources as you noted. I wonder if anyone else out there can step in to help you with the Linux based chapter? Have you got a direct link? Thanks Mick From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 11 January 2018 20:17 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: I've completed my revisions to the Audacity manual--at least everything I could do from a Windows machine. Rosalind Lord has agreed to address the Mac-specific install chapter and Recording config instructions. There's also a Linux/Ubuntu install chapter, which someone in that world will need to update (at least with screenshots, if all the info itself is still current). But the other 90% or so has been redone, with new screenshots throughout (Windows-based; in the old manual they were Linux-based, but it's my rewrite so I'm the Decider in this case ?). As for the writing, since there was so much feature change and addition from 1.x to 2.2, a good deal of the text has been rewritten as well. So someone with veteran FM eyes will want to take a look, to make sure I haven't strayed too much either stylistically or in terms of depth of coverage. I have relied heavily both on my own experimentation with Audacity 2.2, and where necessary on official Audacity documentation. In the latter case, where I've borrowed specific information I've paraphrased language wherever possible (being an English/composition professor, I know the rules), though in some specific places clarity and precision has dictated that I follow their wording. In some cases, where a topic is dealt with much more exhaustively in their documentation than it was in the earlier version of the Floss manual, I've linked to the relevant pages in their site (in the old manual, this was only done once in the appendix, and I don't know if you have best-practice guidance on this, but it seemed like the most useful thing to do). Anyway, there it is. I'm happy to revise based on any feedback. best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of mick at flossmanuals.net Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:35 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book This sounds great! On 10/01/18 12:52, M R wrote: Hi Mick: I agree that what's important to the end user is feature and function, not version/release number as such. Certainly incremental releases (like the difference between 2.2.1 and 2.2.2) don't typically merit an update to the documentation. But here we're talking essentially about the delta between an initial stable release (1.1) and a release some years later (2.x); and having nearly completed the revision I can say that about 40% of the functionality is new altogether, and much of the rest has new GUI look/feel and arrangement, and/or is found in a new place in the main menu system than in the first release. When and if the time comes, we'll see what the delta is between 2.x and 3.x; but I'm guessing a new revision of the FM would be appropriate then too. Meanwhile users of the newly-revised book will at least know they are dealing with the Audacity feature-set as of late 2017. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:26 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi there, Regarding not including version numbers. It?s not a strong opinion but it?s based on some software which changes version a lot but not necessarily function. In that case it can mean the process of patching up docs and just making small changes where there is new functionality is harder, or may appear harder as an editor may think they need to update the whole manual which might be too big a job for them to take on, or at least to finish. In any case I would trust your judgement on this for the Audacity manuals. Thx Mick From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 08 January 2018 06:19 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: Ok, this is well underway, though it's going to take some time as there is fairly major delta between Audacity 1.x and 2.2, with a great deal of feature rearranging and many outright new features, which I'm having to spin up on through a mix of experimentation and appeal to the audacity org documentation. But it's exactly the sort of practice I wanted, and I need it now so the rewrite will move ahead with all deliberate speed. I haven't tackled the tutorials part yet, and can't swear that I'll keep the original tasks exactly as they were, but all the basic chapter subjects will certainly be preserved. Btw, I'm not completely sold on the idea of eliminating all references to release/version numbers, which currently appear at the start of each chapter and a few other places. If someone tried to use the current manual and didn't realize it was years out of date, they'd be lost in some fairly important ways. Clearly the need for this kind of update is burdensome, and I wouldn't advocate it in the Floss context for more than maybe first-order versions (ie 1.x vs 2.x), but I'm not seeing any good purpose to burying the delta itself. Can you share your thinking on this? best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:35 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt, That sounds good, Unfortunately as I migrated 95% of the books in from the last system, I'm down as the owner for all of those. I would say that where possible it would be good to take out references to software version numbers when we come across them. Thanks Mick ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: 06 January 2018 01:11 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as much as Mick. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 02:55:00 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:55:00 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , , , <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mick: It doesn't actually appear like the specific chapters have their own urls -- when I go to http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity/_edit/ and select a chapter to edit, the url doesn't change that I can see. The Linux installation chapter is simply entitled "UBUNTU" and its in the "Installing" part of the manual. Looking over that chapter just now, I'd be very surprised if the Linux install process hadn't been somewhat streamlined, but again we need a Linux/Ubuntu user to tell us that. I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the LAME MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten more user-friendly over the years. So, yeah, take a look when you've got time. Thanks, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 3:14 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt this is fantastic, In terms of best practice, there isn't any official guidance to follow, It is more of an emerging sharing of practice and negociation. So as the person taking the lead on this you are free to use your best judgement. I'd be happy to have a look at it though as soon as I can and share thoughts. One thought I had is that as the official audacity manual is "Copyright: Unless otherwise noted, all pages in this Manual are available under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license. " then you would be free to include chunks if you wanted to, just link back to the sources as you noted. I wonder if anyone else out there can step in to help you with the Linux based chapter? Have you got a direct link? Thanks Mick From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 11 January 2018 20:17 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: I've completed my revisions to the Audacity manual--at least everything I could do from a Windows machine. Rosalind Lord has agreed to address the Mac-specific install chapter and Recording config instructions. There's also a Linux/Ubuntu install chapter, which someone in that world will need to update (at least with screenshots, if all the info itself is still current). But the other 90% or so has been redone, with new screenshots throughout (Windows-based; in the old manual they were Linux-based, but it's my rewrite so I'm the Decider in this case ?). As for the writing, since there was so much feature change and addition from 1.x to 2.2, a good deal of the text has been rewritten as well. So someone with veteran FM eyes will want to take a look, to make sure I haven't strayed too much either stylistically or in terms of depth of coverage. I have relied heavily both on my own experimentation with Audacity 2.2, and where necessary on official Audacity documentation. In the latter case, where I've borrowed specific information I've paraphrased language wherever possible (being an English/composition professor, I know the rules), though in some specific places clarity and precision has dictated that I follow their wording. In some cases, where a topic is dealt with much more exhaustively in their documentation than it was in the earlier version of the Floss manual, I've linked to the relevant pages in their site (in the old manual, this was only done once in the appendix, and I don't know if you have best-practice guidance on this, but it seemed like the most useful thing to do). Anyway, there it is. I'm happy to revise based on any feedback. best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of mick at flossmanuals.net Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:35 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book This sounds great! On 10/01/18 12:52, M R wrote: Hi Mick: I agree that what's important to the end user is feature and function, not version/release number as such. Certainly incremental releases (like the difference between 2.2.1 and 2.2.2) don't typically merit an update to the documentation. But here we're talking essentially about the delta between an initial stable release (1.1) and a release some years later (2.x); and having nearly completed the revision I can say that about 40% of the functionality is new altogether, and much of the rest has new GUI look/feel and arrangement, and/or is found in a new place in the main menu system than in the first release. When and if the time comes, we'll see what the delta is between 2.x and 3.x; but I'm guessing a new revision of the FM would be appropriate then too. Meanwhile users of the newly-revised book will at least know they are dealing with the Audacity feature-set as of late 2017. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:26 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi there, Regarding not including version numbers. It?s not a strong opinion but it?s based on some software which changes version a lot but not necessarily function. In that case it can mean the process of patching up docs and just making small changes where there is new functionality is harder, or may appear harder as an editor may think they need to update the whole manual which might be too big a job for them to take on, or at least to finish. In any case I would trust your judgement on this for the Audacity manuals. Thx Mick From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 08 January 2018 06:19 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: Ok, this is well underway, though it's going to take some time as there is fairly major delta between Audacity 1.x and 2.2, with a great deal of feature rearranging and many outright new features, which I'm having to spin up on through a mix of experimentation and appeal to the audacity org documentation. But it's exactly the sort of practice I wanted, and I need it now so the rewrite will move ahead with all deliberate speed. I haven't tackled the tutorials part yet, and can't swear that I'll keep the original tasks exactly as they were, but all the basic chapter subjects will certainly be preserved. Btw, I'm not completely sold on the idea of eliminating all references to release/version numbers, which currently appear at the start of each chapter and a few other places. If someone tried to use the current manual and didn't realize it was years out of date, they'd be lost in some fairly important ways. Clearly the need for this kind of update is burdensome, and I wouldn't advocate it in the Floss context for more than maybe first-order versions (ie 1.x vs 2.x), but I'm not seeing any good purpose to burying the delta itself. Can you share your thinking on this? best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:35 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt, That sounds good, Unfortunately as I migrated 95% of the books in from the last system, I'm down as the owner for all of those. I would say that where possible it would be good to take out references to software version numbers when we come across them. Thanks Mick ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: 06 January 2018 01:11 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as much as Mick. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Fri Jan 12 02:59:29 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:59:29 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , , , <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk>, Message-ID: <1515754769126.60351@mmu.ac.uk> Ok will do , You can see the direct links from here http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity for example. http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity/ubuntu/ Thanks ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 12 January 2018 10:55 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: It doesn't actually appear like the specific chapters have their own urls -- when I go to http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity/_edit/ and select a chapter to edit, the url doesn't change that I can see. The Linux installation chapter is simply entitled "UBUNTU" and its in the "Installing" part of the manual. Looking over that chapter just now, I'd be very surprised if the Linux install process hadn't been somewhat streamlined, but again we need a Linux/Ubuntu user to tell us that. I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the LAME MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten more user-friendly over the years. So, yeah, take a look when you've got time. Thanks, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 3:14 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt this is fantastic, In terms of best practice, there isn't any official guidance to follow, It is more of an emerging sharing of practice and negociation. So as the person taking the lead on this you are free to use your best judgement. I'd be happy to have a look at it though as soon as I can and share thoughts. One thought I had is that as the official audacity manual is "Copyright: Unless otherwise noted, all pages in this Manual are available under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license. " then you would be free to include chunks if you wanted to, just link back to the sources as you noted. I wonder if anyone else out there can step in to help you with the Linux based chapter? Have you got a direct link? Thanks Mick From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 11 January 2018 20:17 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: I've completed my revisions to the Audacity manual--at least everything I could do from a Windows machine. Rosalind Lord has agreed to address the Mac-specific install chapter and Recording config instructions. There's also a Linux/Ubuntu install chapter, which someone in that world will need to update (at least with screenshots, if all the info itself is still current). But the other 90% or so has been redone, with new screenshots throughout (Windows-based; in the old manual they were Linux-based, but it's my rewrite so I'm the Decider in this case ?). As for the writing, since there was so much feature change and addition from 1.x to 2.2, a good deal of the text has been rewritten as well. So someone with veteran FM eyes will want to take a look, to make sure I haven't strayed too much either stylistically or in terms of depth of coverage. I have relied heavily both on my own experimentation with Audacity 2.2, and where necessary on official Audacity documentation. In the latter case, where I've borrowed specific information I've paraphrased language wherever possible (being an English/composition professor, I know the rules), though in some specific places clarity and precision has dictated that I follow their wording. In some cases, where a topic is dealt with much more exhaustively in their documentation than it was in the earlier version of the Floss manual, I've linked to the relevant pages in their site (in the old manual, this was only done once in the appendix, and I don't know if you have best-practice guidance on this, but it seemed like the most useful thing to do). Anyway, there it is. I'm happy to revise based on any feedback. best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of mick at flossmanuals.net Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:35 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book This sounds great! On 10/01/18 12:52, M R wrote: Hi Mick: I agree that what's important to the end user is feature and function, not version/release number as such. Certainly incremental releases (like the difference between 2.2.1 and 2.2.2) don't typically merit an update to the documentation. But here we're talking essentially about the delta between an initial stable release (1.1) and a release some years later (2.x); and having nearly completed the revision I can say that about 40% of the functionality is new altogether, and much of the rest has new GUI look/feel and arrangement, and/or is found in a new place in the main menu system than in the first release. When and if the time comes, we'll see what the delta is between 2.x and 3.x; but I'm guessing a new revision of the FM would be appropriate then too. Meanwhile users of the newly-revised book will at least know they are dealing with the Audacity feature-set as of late 2017. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:26 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi there, Regarding not including version numbers. It?s not a strong opinion but it?s based on some software which changes version a lot but not necessarily function. In that case it can mean the process of patching up docs and just making small changes where there is new functionality is harder, or may appear harder as an editor may think they need to update the whole manual which might be too big a job for them to take on, or at least to finish. In any case I would trust your judgement on this for the Audacity manuals. Thx Mick From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 08 January 2018 06:19 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: Ok, this is well underway, though it's going to take some time as there is fairly major delta between Audacity 1.x and 2.2, with a great deal of feature rearranging and many outright new features, which I'm having to spin up on through a mix of experimentation and appeal to the audacity org documentation. But it's exactly the sort of practice I wanted, and I need it now so the rewrite will move ahead with all deliberate speed. I haven't tackled the tutorials part yet, and can't swear that I'll keep the original tasks exactly as they were, but all the basic chapter subjects will certainly be preserved. Btw, I'm not completely sold on the idea of eliminating all references to release/version numbers, which currently appear at the start of each chapter and a few other places. If someone tried to use the current manual and didn't realize it was years out of date, they'd be lost in some fairly important ways. Clearly the need for this kind of update is burdensome, and I wouldn't advocate it in the Floss context for more than maybe first-order versions (ie 1.x vs 2.x), but I'm not seeing any good purpose to burying the delta itself. Can you share your thinking on this? best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:35 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt, That sounds good, Unfortunately as I migrated 95% of the books in from the last system, I'm down as the owner for all of those. I would say that where possible it would be good to take out references to software version numbers when we come across them. Thanks Mick ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: 06 January 2018 01:11 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as much as Mick. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Fri Jan 12 03:12:07 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 11:12:07 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , , , <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk>, Message-ID: <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the chapter list screen. From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 12 January 2018 10:55 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the LAME MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten more user-friendly over the years. "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 03:16:50 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 11:16:50 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <1515754769126.60351@mmu.ac.uk> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , , , <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk>, , <1515754769126.60351@mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: Aha, so you can (get to indiv chapter URLS) --I was always hitting 'edit this book' first from the main page, which brings up a different way to access the indiv chapters. One thing that strikes me now, especially looking at the revised "Menu Bar" chapter when it's not in edit mode, since that chapter makes especially extensive use of tables: I kept with the existing formatting convention of having no cell padding set within any of the tables, but I'm not actually sure how readable the result is. It would be easy enough to apply some cell padding to each of the tables in that chapter, at least--maybe 3 - 5 of whatever the unit of measure is there (pts, pixels?) for padding. In general I tried to keep with the formatting conventions I found, but these are now long, complex tables with many rows and no real spacing between them. Ahh, double-clicking, yes: when in doubt, always double-click... Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 3:59 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Ok will do , You can see the direct links from here http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity [http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity/introduction/static/Audacity-audacity_cover2c-en.gif] /chapter: Introduction / Audacity - FLOSS Manuals - Booktype write.flossmanuals.net The Audacity program is an example of an 'audio editor'. Which means Audacity can record and edit audio. Typically, one uses Audacity for recording sounds, like ... for example. http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity/ubuntu/ Installing Audacity on Ubuntu - FLOSS Manuals write.flossmanuals.net Installing Audacity on Ubuntu Software name : Audacity ? Homepage : http://audacity.sourceforge.net Software version used for this installation : 1.2.6 Thanks ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 12 January 2018 10:55 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: It doesn't actually appear like the specific chapters have their own urls -- when I go to http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity/_edit/ and select a chapter to edit, the url doesn't change that I can see. The Linux installation chapter is simply entitled "UBUNTU" and its in the "Installing" part of the manual. Looking over that chapter just now, I'd be very surprised if the Linux install process hadn't been somewhat streamlined, but again we need a Linux/Ubuntu user to tell us that. I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the LAME MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten more user-friendly over the years. So, yeah, take a look when you've got time. Thanks, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 3:14 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt this is fantastic, In terms of best practice, there isn't any official guidance to follow, It is more of an emerging sharing of practice and negociation. So as the person taking the lead on this you are free to use your best judgement. I'd be happy to have a look at it though as soon as I can and share thoughts. One thought I had is that as the official audacity manual is "Copyright: Unless otherwise noted, all pages in this Manual are available under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license. " then you would be free to include chunks if you wanted to, just link back to the sources as you noted. I wonder if anyone else out there can step in to help you with the Linux based chapter? Have you got a direct link? Thanks Mick From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 11 January 2018 20:17 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: I've completed my revisions to the Audacity manual--at least everything I could do from a Windows machine. Rosalind Lord has agreed to address the Mac-specific install chapter and Recording config instructions. There's also a Linux/Ubuntu install chapter, which someone in that world will need to update (at least with screenshots, if all the info itself is still current). But the other 90% or so has been redone, with new screenshots throughout (Windows-based; in the old manual they were Linux-based, but it's my rewrite so I'm the Decider in this case ?). As for the writing, since there was so much feature change and addition from 1.x to 2.2, a good deal of the text has been rewritten as well. So someone with veteran FM eyes will want to take a look, to make sure I haven't strayed too much either stylistically or in terms of depth of coverage. I have relied heavily both on my own experimentation with Audacity 2.2, and where necessary on official Audacity documentation. In the latter case, where I've borrowed specific information I've paraphrased language wherever possible (being an English/composition professor, I know the rules), though in some specific places clarity and precision has dictated that I follow their wording. In some cases, where a topic is dealt with much more exhaustively in their documentation than it was in the earlier version of the Floss manual, I've linked to the relevant pages in their site (in the old manual, this was only done once in the appendix, and I don't know if you have best-practice guidance on this, but it seemed like the most useful thing to do). Anyway, there it is. I'm happy to revise based on any feedback. best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of mick at flossmanuals.net Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:35 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book This sounds great! On 10/01/18 12:52, M R wrote: Hi Mick: I agree that what's important to the end user is feature and function, not version/release number as such. Certainly incremental releases (like the difference between 2.2.1 and 2.2.2) don't typically merit an update to the documentation. But here we're talking essentially about the delta between an initial stable release (1.1) and a release some years later (2.x); and having nearly completed the revision I can say that about 40% of the functionality is new altogether, and much of the rest has new GUI look/feel and arrangement, and/or is found in a new place in the main menu system than in the first release. When and if the time comes, we'll see what the delta is between 2.x and 3.x; but I'm guessing a new revision of the FM would be appropriate then too. Meanwhile users of the newly-revised book will at least know they are dealing with the Audacity feature-set as of late 2017. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:26 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi there, Regarding not including version numbers. It?s not a strong opinion but it?s based on some software which changes version a lot but not necessarily function. In that case it can mean the process of patching up docs and just making small changes where there is new functionality is harder, or may appear harder as an editor may think they need to update the whole manual which might be too big a job for them to take on, or at least to finish. In any case I would trust your judgement on this for the Audacity manuals. Thx Mick From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 08 January 2018 06:19 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: Ok, this is well underway, though it's going to take some time as there is fairly major delta between Audacity 1.x and 2.2, with a great deal of feature rearranging and many outright new features, which I'm having to spin up on through a mix of experimentation and appeal to the audacity org documentation. But it's exactly the sort of practice I wanted, and I need it now so the rewrite will move ahead with all deliberate speed. I haven't tackled the tutorials part yet, and can't swear that I'll keep the original tasks exactly as they were, but all the basic chapter subjects will certainly be preserved. Btw, I'm not completely sold on the idea of eliminating all references to release/version numbers, which currently appear at the start of each chapter and a few other places. If someone tried to use the current manual and didn't realize it was years out of date, they'd be lost in some fairly important ways. Clearly the need for this kind of update is burdensome, and I wouldn't advocate it in the Floss context for more than maybe first-order versions (ie 1.x vs 2.x), but I'm not seeing any good purpose to burying the delta itself. Can you share your thinking on this? best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:35 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt, That sounds good, Unfortunately as I migrated 95% of the books in from the last system, I'm down as the owner for all of those. I would say that where possible it would be good to take out references to software version numbers when we come across them. Thanks Mick ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: 06 January 2018 01:11 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as much as Mick. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 04:50:51 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:50:51 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , , , <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk>, , <1515754769126.60351@mmu.ac.uk>, Message-ID: btw, I should add that there's a specific reason why the tables in the Menu chapter look less readable now than they did in the first version of the manual. In that version, the author was able in most cases to offer a relatively short, non-wrapping description of the each menu option (ie, each row in the table describing that menu could contain a single, non-wrapping description of what that option did). So this mapped across very well with the option name, and made the whole table simple and clean-looking. But that was because Audacity itself, in its first release, had adopted a relatively 'flat' single-level Menu structure with relatively little use of submenus. It's quite a different design now, with either submenus or specialized dialog boxes evoked by nearly every option in the main menus. The way Audacity's own online manual deals with this is to simply say something like Edit > Tracks: "The Tracks Submenu allows for various manipulations of selected tracks"; and then Tracks Submenu is itself a hyperlink to a whole different page dealing exclusively with that submenu, with its own screenshot and detailed walk-throughs of each option there, so the reader got all the information they could need. This wiki-style approach wasn't possible within the Floss framework, which still presumes a PDF, eBook or printed book as its ideal end work product, and doesn't 'chunk' information by page at any finer granularity than the chapter themselves. So I had to basically attempt to say enough about each submenu or dialog to be of use to the reader (so they'd know which main menu item to choose); but this required in some cases much longer option descriptions which at least itemized the most important of the sub-options. So when if you do that for 10 rows out of 12-row table, your table begins to look a little crowded; and if we retain the convention of clear/transparent cell borders and no cell padding, the result is in some case...hard to read. So what do to: As I said, one option would be to add some cell padding throughout, to force all that description text apart into discrete units which are still easily visually mapped to the options they are decribing in the left column. Of course the more common way of solving this problem in document tables of all kinds is to simply put a thin colored or black border around each cell; we could do that, but to preserve consistently we'd need to border ALL of our tables in that way, across the manual, and that seems like a radical step. Anyway, suggestions on this are welcome. You could just try experimentally applying some of those format changes to the first few tables of the FILE MENU chapter, and see what you thought of the results. best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 4:16 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Aha, so you can (get to indiv chapter URLS) --I was always hitting 'edit this book' first from the main page, which brings up a different way to access the indiv chapters. One thing that strikes me now, especially looking at the revised "Menu Bar" chapter when it's not in edit mode, since that chapter makes especially extensive use of tables: I kept with the existing formatting convention of having no cell padding set within any of the tables, but I'm not actually sure how readable the result is. It would be easy enough to apply some cell padding to each of the tables in that chapter, at least--maybe 3 - 5 of whatever the unit of measure is there (pts, pixels?) for padding. In general I tried to keep with the formatting conventions I found, but these are now long, complex tables with many rows and no real spacing between them. Ahh, double-clicking, yes: when in doubt, always double-click... Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 3:59 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Ok will do , You can see the direct links from here http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity [http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity/introduction/static/Audacity-audacity_cover2c-en.gif] /chapter: Introduction / Audacity - FLOSS Manuals - Booktype write.flossmanuals.net The Audacity program is an example of an 'audio editor'. Which means Audacity can record and edit audio. Typically, one uses Audacity for recording sounds, like ... for example. http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity/ubuntu/ Installing Audacity on Ubuntu - FLOSS Manuals write.flossmanuals.net Installing Audacity on Ubuntu Software name : Audacity ? Homepage : http://audacity.sourceforge.net Software version used for this installation : 1.2.6 Thanks ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 12 January 2018 10:55 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: It doesn't actually appear like the specific chapters have their own urls -- when I go to http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity/_edit/ and select a chapter to edit, the url doesn't change that I can see. The Linux installation chapter is simply entitled "UBUNTU" and its in the "Installing" part of the manual. Looking over that chapter just now, I'd be very surprised if the Linux install process hadn't been somewhat streamlined, but again we need a Linux/Ubuntu user to tell us that. I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the LAME MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten more user-friendly over the years. So, yeah, take a look when you've got time. Thanks, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 3:14 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt this is fantastic, In terms of best practice, there isn't any official guidance to follow, It is more of an emerging sharing of practice and negociation. So as the person taking the lead on this you are free to use your best judgement. I'd be happy to have a look at it though as soon as I can and share thoughts. One thought I had is that as the official audacity manual is "Copyright: Unless otherwise noted, all pages in this Manual are available under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license. " then you would be free to include chunks if you wanted to, just link back to the sources as you noted. I wonder if anyone else out there can step in to help you with the Linux based chapter? Have you got a direct link? Thanks Mick From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 11 January 2018 20:17 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: I've completed my revisions to the Audacity manual--at least everything I could do from a Windows machine. Rosalind Lord has agreed to address the Mac-specific install chapter and Recording config instructions. There's also a Linux/Ubuntu install chapter, which someone in that world will need to update (at least with screenshots, if all the info itself is still current). But the other 90% or so has been redone, with new screenshots throughout (Windows-based; in the old manual they were Linux-based, but it's my rewrite so I'm the Decider in this case ?). As for the writing, since there was so much feature change and addition from 1.x to 2.2, a good deal of the text has been rewritten as well. So someone with veteran FM eyes will want to take a look, to make sure I haven't strayed too much either stylistically or in terms of depth of coverage. I have relied heavily both on my own experimentation with Audacity 2.2, and where necessary on official Audacity documentation. In the latter case, where I've borrowed specific information I've paraphrased language wherever possible (being an English/composition professor, I know the rules), though in some specific places clarity and precision has dictated that I follow their wording. In some cases, where a topic is dealt with much more exhaustively in their documentation than it was in the earlier version of the Floss manual, I've linked to the relevant pages in their site (in the old manual, this was only done once in the appendix, and I don't know if you have best-practice guidance on this, but it seemed like the most useful thing to do). Anyway, there it is. I'm happy to revise based on any feedback. best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of mick at flossmanuals.net Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:35 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book This sounds great! On 10/01/18 12:52, M R wrote: Hi Mick: I agree that what's important to the end user is feature and function, not version/release number as such. Certainly incremental releases (like the difference between 2.2.1 and 2.2.2) don't typically merit an update to the documentation. But here we're talking essentially about the delta between an initial stable release (1.1) and a release some years later (2.x); and having nearly completed the revision I can say that about 40% of the functionality is new altogether, and much of the rest has new GUI look/feel and arrangement, and/or is found in a new place in the main menu system than in the first release. When and if the time comes, we'll see what the delta is between 2.x and 3.x; but I'm guessing a new revision of the FM would be appropriate then too. Meanwhile users of the newly-revised book will at least know they are dealing with the Audacity feature-set as of late 2017. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:26 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi there, Regarding not including version numbers. It?s not a strong opinion but it?s based on some software which changes version a lot but not necessarily function. In that case it can mean the process of patching up docs and just making small changes where there is new functionality is harder, or may appear harder as an editor may think they need to update the whole manual which might be too big a job for them to take on, or at least to finish. In any case I would trust your judgement on this for the Audacity manuals. Thx Mick From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 08 January 2018 06:19 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: Ok, this is well underway, though it's going to take some time as there is fairly major delta between Audacity 1.x and 2.2, with a great deal of feature rearranging and many outright new features, which I'm having to spin up on through a mix of experimentation and appeal to the audacity org documentation. But it's exactly the sort of practice I wanted, and I need it now so the rewrite will move ahead with all deliberate speed. I haven't tackled the tutorials part yet, and can't swear that I'll keep the original tasks exactly as they were, but all the basic chapter subjects will certainly be preserved. Btw, I'm not completely sold on the idea of eliminating all references to release/version numbers, which currently appear at the start of each chapter and a few other places. If someone tried to use the current manual and didn't realize it was years out of date, they'd be lost in some fairly important ways. Clearly the need for this kind of update is burdensome, and I wouldn't advocate it in the Floss context for more than maybe first-order versions (ie 1.x vs 2.x), but I'm not seeing any good purpose to burying the delta itself. Can you share your thinking on this? best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 1:35 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Matt, That sounds good, Unfortunately as I migrated 95% of the books in from the last system, I'm down as the owner for all of those. I would say that where possible it would be good to take out references to software version numbers when we come across them. Thanks Mick ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: 06 January 2018 01:11 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Actually I see it was Ryan who started the substantive updating in June, so I guess my question below is addressed to Ryan (hi Ryan) as much as Mick. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:09 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Mick: One of your many hats here seems to be owner of the Audacity book. In that capacity, I wonder what you'd like to see done next with that book as it currently stands. It looks like back in June of last year you did some preliminary work to acknowledge the then-current version 2.1.3 (we're now at 2.2.1), but as far as I can tell most of the extant screenshots and feature discussions throughout the book (other than the installation stuff you worked on) still refer to 1.x. So would it be useful for me to just start working chapter by chapter to update screenshots and (where necessary) feature discussions to 2.2.x? I wouldn't be doing anything other than updating within the existing framework, and no fancy innovations like screen vids ? Just addressing the delta from 1.x. What do you think? Matt "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gpittman at iglou.com Fri Jan 12 06:31:38 2018 From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 09:31:38 -0500 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> On 01/12/2018 05:55 AM, M R wrote: > Mick: > > > It doesn't actually appear like the specific chapters have their own > urls -- when I go to?http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity/_edit/?and > select a chapter to edit,? the url doesn't change that I can see.? The > Linux installation chapter is simply entitled "UBUNTU" and its in the > "Installing" part of the manual. Looking over that chapter just now, I'd > be very surprised if the Linux install process hadn't been somewhat > streamlined, but again we need a Linux/Ubuntu user to tell us that. > Here is the nitty-gritty on installation for Fedora: "The simplest way to install Audacity on recent versions of Fedora is to use the command line. You must be root or have administrative privileges to install software. There are 2 versions of Audacity for Fedora: audacity audacity-freeworld The latter version includes a variety of libraries which are not part of the main Fedora repositories, so you would need to first install rpmfusion-free-release and rpmfusion-nonfree-release. Go to rpmfusion.org and download the appropriate releases for your version of Fedora. These represent additions to your repositories. On the command line, type sudo dnf -y install rpmfusion-free-release... Where the ellipsis at the end needs to fit the rest of the particular version you need. For example in Fedora 26, it would be rpmfusion-free-release-26.noarch.rpm Once you have both of these installed, then type sudo dnf -y install audacity-freeworld after which the assessment of dependencies, downloads and installations should proceed automatically. Once it is installed, your are ready to use it. Simply type 'audacity' on the command line or find the application under Multimedia with your application launcher." Greg From matrobnew at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 11:37:45 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 19:37:45 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> , <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> Message-ID: Hi Greg: This is cool, thanks. See, I'm so not a Linux guy that i didn't even know what Fedora was, till I looked it up just now ?. It sounds like it might make sense to include your Fedora install info in a renamed "Linux Install" chapter, along with the updated Ubuntu install info (and any other Linux OS that someone felt like addressing). All of this would presumably require some degree of screen-shots, in keeping with the rest of the manual--though how much is a matter of personal judgment: I mean maybe in the case of the Fedora install you've detailed there would be literally zero screenshots, if the whole thing really was via command-line. In any case, probably the way to proceed is for you, Greg, to take initial charge of the current "Ubuntu" chapter, rename it "Linux" or something (by double-clicking on the chapter name, as I just learned from Mick yesterday), and adding in your bit in a separate Fedora section. Then we wait for someone to step forward who is running Ubuntu, to update that part (unless you happen to be dual-booting with Ubuntu, or running it on a separate machine). What do you think? Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Gregory Pittman Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 7:31 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book On 01/12/2018 05:55 AM, M R wrote: > Mick: > > > It doesn't actually appear like the specific chapters have their own > urls -- when I go to http://write.flossmanuals.net/audacity/_edit/ and Booktype Sign In write.flossmanuals.net Free Manuals for Freedom > select a chapter to edit, the url doesn't change that I can see. The > Linux installation chapter is simply entitled "UBUNTU" and its in the > "Installing" part of the manual. Looking over that chapter just now, I'd > be very surprised if the Linux install process hadn't been somewhat > streamlined, but again we need a Linux/Ubuntu user to tell us that. > Here is the nitty-gritty on installation for Fedora: "The simplest way to install Audacity on recent versions of Fedora is to use the command line. You must be root or have administrative privileges to install software. There are 2 versions of Audacity for Fedora: audacity audacity-freeworld The latter version includes a variety of libraries which are not part of the main Fedora repositories, so you would need to first install rpmfusion-free-release and rpmfusion-nonfree-release. Go to rpmfusion.org and download the appropriate releases for your version of Fedora. These represent additions to your repositories. On the command line, type sudo dnf -y install rpmfusion-free-release... Where the ellipsis at the end needs to fit the rest of the particular version you need. For example in Fedora 26, it would be rpmfusion-free-release-26.noarch.rpm Once you have both of these installed, then type sudo dnf -y install audacity-freeworld after which the assessment of dependencies, downloads and installations should proceed automatically. Once it is installed, your are ready to use it. Simply type 'audacity' on the command line or find the application under Multimedia with your application launcher." Greg _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Discuss Info Page - lists.flossmanuals.net lists.flossmanuals.net Discuss anything about floss manuals - its aims, what it does, how it does it, what it could do, and how it can be better. To see the collection of prior postings to ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gpittman at iglou.com Fri Jan 12 11:56:49 2018 From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 14:56:49 -0500 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> Message-ID: <239c598c-bb65-364b-f0b6-d61cec05c5f6@iglou.com> On 01/12/2018 02:37 PM, M R wrote: > Hi Greg: > > > This is cool, thanks.? See, I'm so not a Linux guy that i didn't even > know what Fedora was, till I looked it up just now??.?? > > > It sounds like it might make sense to include your Fedora install info > in a renamed "Linux Install" chapter, along with the updated Ubuntu > install?info (and any other Linux OS that someone felt like > addressing).? ?All of this would presumably require some degree of > screen-shots, in keeping with the rest of the manual--though how much is > a matter of personal judgment:?I mean maybe in the case of the Fedora > install you've detailed there would be literally zero screenshots, if > the whole thing really was via command-line.?? > > > In any case, probably the way to proceed is for you, Greg, to take > initial charge of the current "Ubuntu" chapter, rename it "Linux" or > something (by double-clicking on the chapter name, as I just learned > from Mick yesterday), and adding in your bit in a separate Fedora > section.? Then we wait for someone to step forward who is running > Ubuntu, to update that part (unless you happen to be dual-booting with > Ubuntu, or running it on a separate machine).?? > > > What do you think? > I think I've lost any ability to log in, unless Mick can find it somewhere. I can't even find any place to request an account... Greg From matrobnew at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 12:05:01 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 20:05:01 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book -- PAGING MICK In-Reply-To: <239c598c-bb65-364b-f0b6-d61cec05c5f6@iglou.com> References: <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> , <239c598c-bb65-364b-f0b6-d61cec05c5f6@iglou.com> Message-ID: Hey Mick: Greg Pittman needs his account access restored, see below, so he can contribute to the Linux install stuff in the Audacity book. I would help him but I have no idea myself, since i think you created my account for me when I first wrote a note of inquiry. You are the last of the All-Powerful Admins. Help us, Mick, you're our only hope, etc... thanks, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Gregory Pittman Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 12:56 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book On 01/12/2018 02:37 PM, M R wrote: > Hi Greg: > > > This is cool, thanks. See, I'm so not a Linux guy that i didn't even > know what Fedora was, till I looked it up just now ?. > > > It sounds like it might make sense to include your Fedora install info > in a renamed "Linux Install" chapter, along with the updated Ubuntu > install info (and any other Linux OS that someone felt like > addressing). All of this would presumably require some degree of > screen-shots, in keeping with the rest of the manual--though how much is > a matter of personal judgment: I mean maybe in the case of the Fedora > install you've detailed there would be literally zero screenshots, if > the whole thing really was via command-line. > > > In any case, probably the way to proceed is for you, Greg, to take > initial charge of the current "Ubuntu" chapter, rename it "Linux" or > something (by double-clicking on the chapter name, as I just learned > from Mick yesterday), and adding in your bit in a separate Fedora > section. Then we wait for someone to step forward who is running > Ubuntu, to update that part (unless you happen to be dual-booting with > Ubuntu, or running it on a separate machine). > > > What do you think? > I think I've lost any ability to log in, unless Mick can find it somewhere. I can't even find any place to request an account... Greg _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Discuss Info Page - lists.flossmanuals.net lists.flossmanuals.net Discuss anything about floss manuals - its aims, what it does, how it does it, what it could do, and how it can be better. To see the collection of prior postings to ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rclord at seaserpent.com Fri Jan 12 20:36:37 2018 From: rclord at seaserpent.com (Rosalind Lord) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 20:36:37 -0800 Subject: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7965F7C4-33C1-43A6-9108-1CC06FF962E4@seaserpent.com> Hi Matt: I have now included a section for installing Audacity 2.2.1 in the chapter for Installing Audacity on OS X in the flossmanuals.net book on Audacity, with screen shots. I have also included a sub-section on setting up Audacity 2.2.1; i.e. opening it for the first time. I did not delete the section for Audacity 1.2.5. Looking forward to feedback, whenever you?re ready. Have a great weekend, Matt and everyone else here, - Rosalind > On Jan 9, 2018, at 11:17 PM, M R wrote: > > that would be great, Rosalind, thanks. Let me know if you need anything from me. > > Matt > > > From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:20 PM > To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite > > I?d be happy to help out with this, since I?m a big Mac user, and have been one for years. > > I have dabbled with Audacity a little bit. > > - Rosalind > >> On Jan 9, 2018, at 8:11 PM, M R > wrote: >> >> Hi folks: >> >> Looking for a Mac user, ideally with some awareness of the Audacity tool, though perhaps no previous experience at all would be just as helpful. >> >> I am in the process of rewriting the Audacity manual to reflect the fairly substantial changes from the initial (1.x) release to the latest (2.2.1). There are specific chapters on installation for Ubuntu and Mac OS that I cannot address, having no access at present to either OS. In addition, the chapter on Recording includes a long section on configuring your Mac for recording with Audacity (a bunch of specific steps you needn't take with Windows or Linux). Looking at the official Audacity documentation, it appears to me that much in this section no longer applies, but I can't tell for sure without Mac access. And to the extent that any of this Mac-specific recording config is still necessary, we'd need a Mac anyway to generate the new screenshots where necessary (and I'm guessing they would be, as I've had to replace every single Windows screenshot in the manual with a new one). So, any help on this score would be appreciated. The Mac and Ubuntu installation chapters, and this part of the Recording chapter, are the only parts I think can't be adequately covered with a Windows machine. >> >> thanks, >> >> Matt Roberts >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > > Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? > > ... at Zazzle: > > New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? ... at Zazzle: New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 20:50:22 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 04:50:22 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite In-Reply-To: <7965F7C4-33C1-43A6-9108-1CC06FF962E4@seaserpent.com> References: , <7965F7C4-33C1-43A6-9108-1CC06FF962E4@seaserpent.com> Message-ID: Many thanks for the quick work, Rosalind --- I'll have a look tomorrow. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Rosalind Lord Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 9:36 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite Hi Matt: I have now included a section for installing Audacity 2.2.1 in the chapter for Installing Audacity on OS X in the flossmanuals.net book on Audacity, with screen shots. Floss Manuals - Free Manuals for Free Software flossmanuals.net A book community creating books of Free Culture and Free Software. I have also included a sub-section on setting up Audacity 2.2.1; i.e. opening it for the first time. I did not delete the section for Audacity 1.2.5. Looking forward to feedback, whenever you?re ready. Have a great weekend, Matt and everyone else here, - Rosalind On Jan 9, 2018, at 11:17 PM, M R > wrote: that would be great, Rosalind, thanks. Let me know if you need anything from me. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:20 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite I?d be happy to help out with this, since I?m a big Mac user, and have been one for years. I have dabbled with Audacity a little bit. - Rosalind On Jan 9, 2018, at 8:11 PM, M R > wrote: Hi folks: Looking for a Mac user, ideally with some awareness of the Audacity tool, though perhaps no previous experience at all would be just as helpful. I am in the process of rewriting the Audacity manual to reflect the fairly substantial changes from the initial (1.x) release to the latest (2.2.1). There are specific chapters on installation for Ubuntu and Mac OS that I cannot address, having no access at present to either OS. In addition, the chapter on Recording includes a long section on configuring your Mac for recording with Audacity (a bunch of specific steps you needn't take with Windows or Linux). Looking at the official Audacity documentation, it appears to me that much in this section no longer applies, but I can't tell for sure without Mac access. And to the extent that any of this Mac-specific recording config is still necessary, we'd need a Mac anyway to generate the new screenshots where necessary (and I'm guessing they would be, as I've had to replace every single Windows screenshot in the manual with a new one). So, any help on this score would be appreciated. The Mac and Ubuntu installation chapters, and this part of the Recording chapter, are the only parts I think can't be adequately covered with a Windows machine. thanks, Matt Roberts _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mick at flossmanuals.net Sat Jan 13 00:53:39 2018 From: mick at flossmanuals.net (Mick Chesterman) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:53:39 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> References: <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> Message-ID: Greg, I've set you up an account on write.flossmanuals.net details are in a separate email. Thanks Mick On 12/01/2018 14:31, Gregory Pittman wrote: > On 01/12/2018 05:55 AM, M R wrote: >> >> Once it is installed, your are ready to use it. Simply type 'audacity' >> on the command line or find the application under Multimedia with your >> application launcher." >> >> Greg >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here From gpittman at iglou.com Sat Jan 13 06:38:40 2018 From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 09:38:40 -0500 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> Message-ID: <1400b176-a906-07bb-eff1-f86021c36f59@iglou.com> Ok, I've edited that chapter. I don't know enough about Ubuntu or all this apt-get stuff to edit the Ubuntu part. It seems to be reasonably accurate, though rather verbose. I would presume that an Ubuntu user is not going to have to rely on this book on Audacity to learn about apt-get. Greg On 01/13/2018 03:53 AM, Mick Chesterman wrote: > Greg, > > I've set you up an account on write.flossmanuals.net > > details are in a separate email. > > Thanks > > Mick From matrobnew at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 10:37:24 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 18:37:24 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <1400b176-a906-07bb-eff1-f86021c36f59@iglou.com> References: <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> , <1400b176-a906-07bb-eff1-f86021c36f59@iglou.com> Message-ID: thanks for the quick work, Greg. In editing the rest of the book, I found a number of places where I thought the original author had over-explained what should be common concepts, and under-explained some things specific to Audacity. So I adjusted that balance in m re-write, which had to be pretty thorough anyway for feature-delta reasons. But I think that balance is basically always a judgement call anyway. For open-source docs like FM, I suppose those of us who undertake the writing/re-writing get to be the Deciders ?. thanks again, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Gregory Pittman Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 7:38 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Ok, I've edited that chapter. I don't know enough about Ubuntu or all this apt-get stuff to edit the Ubuntu part. It seems to be reasonably accurate, though rather verbose. I would presume that an Ubuntu user is not going to have to rely on this book on Audacity to learn about apt-get. Greg On 01/13/2018 03:53 AM, Mick Chesterman wrote: > Greg, > > I've set you up an account on write.flossmanuals.net > > details are in a separate email. > > Thanks > > Mick _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Discuss Info Page - lists.flossmanuals.net lists.flossmanuals.net Discuss anything about floss manuals - its aims, what it does, how it does it, what it could do, and how it can be better. To see the collection of prior postings to ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 11:18:27 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:18:27 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite In-Reply-To: <7965F7C4-33C1-43A6-9108-1CC06FF962E4@seaserpent.com> References: , <7965F7C4-33C1-43A6-9108-1CC06FF962E4@seaserpent.com> Message-ID: Hi Rosalind: I've reviewed your newly-added Mac install material, and i think it looks great. Very professional. As for leaving the 1.x material there, I'm of two minds (well, not really, but trying to be open-minded). It doesn't hurt (at least too much) since it's pushed to the bottom of the page; on the other hand there's no new language indicating that it's a legacy install, and instead the old material still begins with the text "The latest stable version of Audacity for OS X can be downloaded from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac. The latest version at the time of writing this document is Audacity 1.2.5 (Intel) or Audacity 1.2.6a (PPC)." BOTH of those statements are factually incorrect now. So a user might still be confused if they read to this point. I personally removed all traces of 1.x reference from the parts of the manual I rewrote (which is almost everything else). I think the key question is: what is the actual use case for a user needing a fresh or first-time install of a 1.x version of Audacity, on any OS? It seems very very narrow to me. I think it's still possible to find legacy 1.x install files from the main Audacity site (though not from SourceForge), but you'd really have to hunt the Audacity site and wiki to find supporting documentation for those early versions. Certainly nothing else in our own rewritten Floss manual supports it. And even if someone already knew the software well, and just had corrupted or lost their install, it's hard to imagine why they wouldn't upgrade. There are a ton of things you can't do in 1.1 and 1.2 that you can in 2.2, including lots of file types you can't open or export, let alone read other Audacity projects. So...if it were me, I would zap the old material completely. Or at a minimum, add language indicating that it is deprecated. But your call; this is your chapter. Thanks again for your work on this, best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Rosalind Lord Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 9:36 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite Hi Matt: I have now included a section for installing Audacity 2.2.1 in the chapter for Installing Audacity on OS X in the flossmanuals.net book on Audacity, with screen shots. Floss Manuals - Free Manuals for Free Software flossmanuals.net A book community creating books of Free Culture and Free Software. I have also included a sub-section on setting up Audacity 2.2.1; i.e. opening it for the first time. I did not delete the section for Audacity 1.2.5. Looking forward to feedback, whenever you?re ready. Have a great weekend, Matt and everyone else here, - Rosalind On Jan 9, 2018, at 11:17 PM, M R > wrote: that would be great, Rosalind, thanks. Let me know if you need anything from me. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:20 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite I?d be happy to help out with this, since I?m a big Mac user, and have been one for years. I have dabbled with Audacity a little bit. - Rosalind On Jan 9, 2018, at 8:11 PM, M R > wrote: Hi folks: Looking for a Mac user, ideally with some awareness of the Audacity tool, though perhaps no previous experience at all would be just as helpful. I am in the process of rewriting the Audacity manual to reflect the fairly substantial changes from the initial (1.x) release to the latest (2.2.1). There are specific chapters on installation for Ubuntu and Mac OS that I cannot address, having no access at present to either OS. In addition, the chapter on Recording includes a long section on configuring your Mac for recording with Audacity (a bunch of specific steps you needn't take with Windows or Linux). Looking at the official Audacity documentation, it appears to me that much in this section no longer applies, but I can't tell for sure without Mac access. And to the extent that any of this Mac-specific recording config is still necessary, we'd need a Mac anyway to generate the new screenshots where necessary (and I'm guessing they would be, as I've had to replace every single Windows screenshot in the manual with a new one). So, any help on this score would be appreciated. The Mac and Ubuntu installation chapters, and this part of the Recording chapter, are the only parts I think can't be adequately covered with a Windows machine. thanks, Matt Roberts _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maren at goos-habermann.de Sat Jan 13 13:52:34 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 22:52:34 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <1400b176-a906-07bb-eff1-f86021c36f59@iglou.com> References: <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> <1400b176-a906-07bb-eff1-f86021c36f59@iglou.com> Message-ID: <70e53d22-2b3e-f996-6e6d-4bfd14a863d4@goos-habermann.de> Wow, yes. That chapter is weird, and looks rather outdated. The normal way would be to visit the software center or whatever they call it (I think it has a shopping bag as an icon, and is available right on the default desktop), enter the search term 'audacity', then select it from the list and click on 'install'... Looks a lot fancier than synaptic (which is still available, though). Or to just open a terminal and type the one-liner sudo apt-get install audacity then enter your password, when asked for it. With Ubuntu 16.04, this will currently give you Audacity 2.1.2-1, not sure what the most current version is, but I'm sure there's also a ppa, or a flatpak, or a snap. Or all of those (and they will have the most recent version, and might even be available in the software center by default - I'm on Linux Mint, so things are a tiny bit different, but I regularly start Ubuntu in a virtual machine for trying stuff out). Maren Am 13.01.2018 um 15:38 schrieb Gregory Pittman: > Ok, I've edited that chapter. I don't know enough about Ubuntu or all > this apt-get stuff to edit the Ubuntu part. It seems to be reasonably > accurate, though rather verbose. I would presume that an Ubuntu user is > not going to have to rely on this book on Audacity to learn about apt-get. > > Greg > > > On 01/13/2018 03:53 AM, Mick Chesterman wrote: >> Greg, >> >> I've set you up an account on write.flossmanuals.net >> >> details are in a separate email. >> >> Thanks >> >> Mick > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 14:48:37 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 22:48:37 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <70e53d22-2b3e-f996-6e6d-4bfd14a863d4@goos-habermann.de> References: <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> <1400b176-a906-07bb-eff1-f86021c36f59@iglou.com>, <70e53d22-2b3e-f996-6e6d-4bfd14a863d4@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: Maren: Ok -- do you want to go ahead and make those changes for the Ubuntu part? I think it's pretty much whoever has the OS can be the expert here ?. I don't run any linux so I can't test out any of those installs myself. Don't know if you're familiar with Audacity itself, but you don't really need to be for the install part. As a Windows person, I stopped using the command line for just about anything many years ago. We can blame Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 2:52 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Wow, yes. That chapter is weird, and looks rather outdated. The normal way would be to visit the software center or whatever they call it (I think it has a shopping bag as an icon, and is available right on the default desktop), enter the search term 'audacity', then select it from the list and click on 'install'... Looks a lot fancier than synaptic (which is still available, though). Or to just open a terminal and type the one-liner sudo apt-get install audacity then enter your password, when asked for it. With Ubuntu 16.04, this will currently give you Audacity 2.1.2-1, not sure what the most current version is, but I'm sure there's also a ppa, or a flatpak, or a snap. Or all of those (and they will have the most recent version, and might even be available in the software center by default - I'm on Linux Mint, so things are a tiny bit different, but I regularly start Ubuntu in a virtual machine for trying stuff out). Maren Am 13.01.2018 um 15:38 schrieb Gregory Pittman: > Ok, I've edited that chapter. I don't know enough about Ubuntu or all > this apt-get stuff to edit the Ubuntu part. It seems to be reasonably > accurate, though rather verbose. I would presume that an Ubuntu user is > not going to have to rely on this book on Audacity to learn about apt-get. > > Greg > > > On 01/13/2018 03:53 AM, Mick Chesterman wrote: >> Greg, >> >> I've set you up an account on write.flossmanuals.net >> >> details are in a separate email. >> >> Thanks >> >> Mick > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Discuss Info Page - lists.flossmanuals.net lists.flossmanuals.net Discuss anything about floss manuals - its aims, what it does, how it does it, what it could do, and how it can be better. To see the collection of prior postings to ... > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rclord at seaserpent.com Sat Jan 13 15:31:46 2018 From: rclord at seaserpent.com (Rosalind Lord) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:31:46 -0800 Subject: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite In-Reply-To: References: <7965F7C4-33C1-43A6-9108-1CC06FF962E4@seaserpent.com> Message-ID: <6513A504-E42D-494E-856C-93BBCBA6A864@seaserpent.com> No problem. Thank you for your prompt review/feedback, Matt. I wasn?t sure what yours or other people?s feelings were about Audacity 1.2.5; that was why I didn?t delete it. For all I knew, some people might still use it on older machines. But I?ll be happy to take out the text "The latest stable version of Audacity for OS X can be downloaded from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac. The latest version at the time of writing this document is Audacity 1.2.5 (Intel) or Audacity 1.2.6a (PPC).? I?m glad you pointed this text out since I overlooked it. You sound like you know a lot about Audacity; probably much more than I do. I?m also glad you mentioned that you removed Audacity 1.x references from other parts of this manual (from what I understand, it?s most of the rest of this manual, no?). I have not looked at much of the rest of this manual. But I will. I?ll also be happy to delete and/or edit down the Audacity 1.2 section, since it looks like Audacity 2.2 is the version to emphasize. I will keep you posted on all this. Namaste, - Rosalind > On Jan 13, 2018, at 11:18 AM, M R wrote: > > Hi Rosalind: > > I've reviewed your newly-added Mac install material, and i think it looks great. Very professional. As for leaving the 1.x material there, I'm of two minds (well, not really, but trying to be open-minded). It doesn't hurt (at least too much) since it's pushed to the bottom of the page; on the other hand there's no new language indicating that it's a legacy install, and instead the old material still begins with the text "The latest stable version of Audacity for OS X can be downloaded from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac . The latest version at the time of writing this document is Audacity 1.2.5 (Intel) or Audacity 1.2.6a (PPC)." BOTH of those statements are factually incorrect now. So a user might still be confused if they read to this point. > > I personally removed all traces of 1.x reference from the parts of the manual I rewrote (which is almost everything else). I think the key question is: what is the actual use case for a user needing a fresh or first-time install of a 1.x version of Audacity, on any OS? It seems very very narrow to me. I think it's still possible to find legacy 1.x install files from the main Audacity site (though not from SourceForge), but you'd really have to hunt the Audacity site and wiki to find supporting documentation for those early versions. Certainly nothing else in our own rewritten Floss manual supports it. And even if someone already knew the software well, and just had corrupted or lost their install, it's hard to imagine why they wouldn't upgrade. There are a ton of things you can't do in 1.1 and 1.2 that you can in 2.2, including lots of file types you can't open or export, let alone read other Audacity projects. So...if it were me, I would zap the old material completely. Or at a minimum, add language indicating that it is deprecated. But your call; this is your chapter. > > Thanks again for your work on this, > > best, > > Matt > > > > From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 9:36 PM > To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite > > Hi Matt: > > I have now included a section for installing Audacity 2.2.1 in the chapter for Installing Audacity on OS X in the flossmanuals.net book on Audacity, with screen shots. > Floss Manuals - Free Manuals for Free Software > flossmanuals.net > A book community creating books of Free Culture and Free Software. > > > I have also included a sub-section on setting up Audacity 2.2.1; i.e. opening it for the first time. > > I did not delete the section for Audacity 1.2.5. > > Looking forward to feedback, whenever you?re ready. > > Have a great weekend, Matt and everyone else here, > > - Rosalind > >> On Jan 9, 2018, at 11:17 PM, M R > wrote: >> >> that would be great, Rosalind, thanks. Let me know if you need anything from me. >> >> Matt >> >> >> From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:20 PM >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite >> >> I?d be happy to help out with this, since I?m a big Mac user, and have been one for years. >> >> I have dabbled with Audacity a little bit. >> >> - Rosalind >> >>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 8:11 PM, M R > wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks: >>> >>> Looking for a Mac user, ideally with some awareness of the Audacity tool, though perhaps no previous experience at all would be just as helpful. >>> >>> I am in the process of rewriting the Audacity manual to reflect the fairly substantial changes from the initial (1.x) release to the latest (2.2.1). There are specific chapters on installation for Ubuntu and Mac OS that I cannot address, having no access at present to either OS. In addition, the chapter on Recording includes a long section on configuring your Mac for recording with Audacity (a bunch of specific steps you needn't take with Windows or Linux). Looking at the official Audacity documentation, it appears to me that much in this section no longer applies, but I can't tell for sure without Mac access. And to the extent that any of this Mac-specific recording config is still necessary, we'd need a Mac anyway to generate the new screenshots where necessary (and I'm guessing they would be, as I've had to replace every single Windows screenshot in the manual with a new one). So, any help on this score would be appreciated. The Mac and Ubuntu installation chapters, and this part of the Recording chapter, are the only parts I think can't be adequately covered with a Windows machine. >>> >>> thanks, >>> >>> Matt Roberts >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here >> >> Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? >> >> ... at Zazzle: >> >> New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > > Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? > > ... at Zazzle: > > New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? ... at Zazzle: New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 18:09:34 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 02:09:34 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite In-Reply-To: <6513A504-E42D-494E-856C-93BBCBA6A864@seaserpent.com> References: <7965F7C4-33C1-43A6-9108-1CC06FF962E4@seaserpent.com> , <6513A504-E42D-494E-856C-93BBCBA6A864@seaserpent.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Rosalind. I do mean what i say about people owning their own chapters, but I figured I'd at least explain why I deleted all the old 1.x references from mine. If people are still running 1.x from years ago, and insist on sticking with it, then presumably they're beyond the kind of guidance we could give them in a Floss Manual. Just for some history, Audacity was first released in 2000 (as version .8), and while i can't find an exact date for the 1.2 release, it had to have been before 2008. I first started playing around with the tool about 2010, but that machine has long since died and I don't know what the version was. 2.0 was released March of 2012. Anyway, running 1.2 now (and certainly trying to install it) would be kind of like wanting to install Office 2005, or Windows Vista. I'm sure there are people who do that, for whatever reason, but it seems like a real edge case. OTOH, I am definitely new to the Floss community, so I really have no idea who the the readers are other than folks I've met the past few weeks in this forum. So who knows. I'm just glad that people here have been so incredibly responsive. Namaste, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Rosalind Lord Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 4:31 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite No problem. Thank you for your prompt review/feedback, Matt. I wasn?t sure what yours or other people?s feelings were about Audacity 1.2.5; that was why I didn?t delete it. For all I knew, some people might still use it on older machines. But I?ll be happy to take out the text "The latest stable version of Audacity for OS X can be downloaded from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac. The latest version at the time of writing this document is Audacity 1.2.5 (Intel) or Audacity 1.2.6a (PPC).? I?m glad you pointed this text out since I overlooked it. [https://a.fsdn.com/allura/p/audacity/icon?1507461951] Audacity audacity.sourceforge.net Download Audacity for free. A free multi-track audio editor and recorder. Audacity is a free, easy-to-use, multi-track audio editor and recorder for Windows, Mac OS X, GNU/Linux and other operating systems. The interface is translated into many languages. You sound like you know a lot about Audacity; probably much more than I do. I?m also glad you mentioned that you removed Audacity 1.x references from other parts of this manual (from what I understand, it?s most of the rest of this manual, no?). I have not looked at much of the rest of this manual. But I will. I?ll also be happy to delete and/or edit down the Audacity 1.2 section, since it looks like Audacity 2.2 is the version to emphasize. I will keep you posted on all this. Namaste, - Rosalind On Jan 13, 2018, at 11:18 AM, M R > wrote: Hi Rosalind: I've reviewed your newly-added Mac install material, and i think it looks great. Very professional. As for leaving the 1.x material there, I'm of two minds (well, not really, but trying to be open-minded). It doesn't hurt (at least too much) since it's pushed to the bottom of the page; on the other hand there's no new language indicating that it's a legacy install, and instead the old material still begins with the text "The latest stable version of Audacity for OS X can be downloaded from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac. The latest version at the time of writing this document is Audacity 1.2.5 (Intel) or Audacity 1.2.6a (PPC)." BOTH of those statements are factually incorrect now. So a user might still be confused if they read to this point. I personally removed all traces of 1.x reference from the parts of the manual I rewrote (which is almost everything else). I think the key question is: what is the actual use case for a user needing a fresh or first-time install of a 1.x version of Audacity, on any OS? It seems very very narrow to me. I think it's still possible to find legacy 1.x install files from the main Audacity site (though not from SourceForge), but you'd really have to hunt the Audacity site and wiki to find supporting documentation for those early versions. Certainly nothing else in our own rewritten Floss manual supports it. And even if someone already knew the software well, and just had corrupted or lost their install, it's hard to imagine why they wouldn't upgrade. There are a ton of things you can't do in 1.1 and 1.2 that you can in 2.2, including lots of file types you can't open or export, let alone read other Audacity projects. So...if it were me, I would zap the old material completely. Or at a minimum, add language indicating that it is deprecated. But your call; this is your chapter. Thanks again for your work on this, best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 9:36 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite Hi Matt: I have now included a section for installing Audacity 2.2.1 in the chapter for Installing Audacity on OS X in the flossmanuals.net book on Audacity, with screen shots. Floss Manuals - Free Manuals for Free Software flossmanuals.net A book community creating books of Free Culture and Free Software. I have also included a sub-section on setting up Audacity 2.2.1; i.e. opening it for the first time. I did not delete the section for Audacity 1.2.5. Looking forward to feedback, whenever you?re ready. Have a great weekend, Matt and everyone else here, - Rosalind On Jan 9, 2018, at 11:17 PM, M R > wrote: that would be great, Rosalind, thanks. Let me know if you need anything from me. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:20 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite I?d be happy to help out with this, since I?m a big Mac user, and have been one for years. I have dabbled with Audacity a little bit. - Rosalind On Jan 9, 2018, at 8:11 PM, M R > wrote: Hi folks: Looking for a Mac user, ideally with some awareness of the Audacity tool, though perhaps no previous experience at all would be just as helpful. I am in the process of rewriting the Audacity manual to reflect the fairly substantial changes from the initial (1.x) release to the latest (2.2.1). There are specific chapters on installation for Ubuntu and Mac OS that I cannot address, having no access at present to either OS. In addition, the chapter on Recording includes a long section on configuring your Mac for recording with Audacity (a bunch of specific steps you needn't take with Windows or Linux). Looking at the official Audacity documentation, it appears to me that much in this section no longer applies, but I can't tell for sure without Mac access. And to the extent that any of this Mac-specific recording config is still necessary, we'd need a Mac anyway to generate the new screenshots where necessary (and I'm guessing they would be, as I've had to replace every single Windows screenshot in the manual with a new one). So, any help on this score would be appreciated. The Mac and Ubuntu installation chapters, and this part of the Recording chapter, are the only parts I think can't be adequately covered with a Windows machine. thanks, Matt Roberts _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Martin.Kean at op.ac.nz Sat Jan 13 18:54:04 2018 From: Martin.Kean at op.ac.nz (Martin Kean) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 02:54:04 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book -- PAGING MICK In-Reply-To: References: <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <5c3162ea-ff26-36fc-e2ae-f03850a43606@iglou.com> , <239c598c-bb65-364b-f0b6-d61cec05c5f6@iglou.com>, Message-ID: Hi Greg, I have restored your login at write.flossmanuals.net, please see my email to your iglou.com address. I notice there is no activity or books associated with your account, can you confirm 'gregp' is your usual login username? Thanks! Martin ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: Saturday, 13 January 2018 9:05:01 a.m. To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book -- PAGING MICK Hey Mick: Greg Pittman needs his account access restored, see below, so he can contribute to the Linux install stuff in the Audacity book. I would help him but I have no idea myself, since i think you created my account for me when I first wrote a note of inquiry. You are the last of the All-Powerful Admins. Help us, Mick, you're our only hope, etc... thanks, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Gregory Pittman Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 12:56 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book On 01/12/2018 02:37 PM, M R wrote: > Hi Greg: > > > This is cool, thanks. See, I'm so not a Linux guy that i didn't even > know what Fedora was, till I looked it up just now ?. > > > It sounds like it might make sense to include your Fedora install info > in a renamed "Linux Install" chapter, along with the updated Ubuntu > install info (and any other Linux OS that someone felt like > addressing). All of this would presumably require some degree of > screen-shots, in keeping with the rest of the manual--though how much is > a matter of personal judgment: I mean maybe in the case of the Fedora > install you've detailed there would be literally zero screenshots, if > the whole thing really was via command-line. > > > In any case, probably the way to proceed is for you, Greg, to take > initial charge of the current "Ubuntu" chapter, rename it "Linux" or > something (by double-clicking on the chapter name, as I just learned > from Mick yesterday), and adding in your bit in a separate Fedora > section. Then we wait for someone to step forward who is running > Ubuntu, to update that part (unless you happen to be dual-booting with > Ubuntu, or running it on a separate machine). > > > What do you think? > I think I've lost any ability to log in, unless Mick can find it somewhere. I can't even find any place to request an account... Greg _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Discuss Info Page - lists.flossmanuals.net lists.flossmanuals.net Discuss anything about floss manuals - its aims, what it does, how it does it, what it could do, and how it can be better. To see the collection of prior postings to ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rclord at seaserpent.com Sun Jan 14 14:41:48 2018 From: rclord at seaserpent.com (Rosalind Lord) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 14:41:48 -0800 Subject: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite In-Reply-To: References: <7965F7C4-33C1-43A6-9108-1CC06FF962E4@seaserpent.com> <6513A504-E42D-494E-856C-93BBCBA6A864@seaserpent.com> Message-ID: <26A2A23C-7EA2-4B9E-B74A-F515DA65197E@seaserpent.com> I?m new to the Floss community too. I joined about two or three weeks ago. Are you supervising this Audacity manual? I had the impression you were, which was another reason why I didn?t delete the Audacity 1.2 section. I thought I should consult with you first. I was doing another chapter in another Floss manual, and I was asked to consult with the rest of the team on that manual before I made any edits in that chapter. - Rosalind > On Jan 13, 2018, at 6:09 PM, M R wrote: > > Thanks, Rosalind. I do mean what i say about people owning their own chapters, but I figured I'd at least explain why I deleted all the old 1.x references from mine. If people are still running 1.x from years ago, and insist on sticking with it, then presumably they're beyond the kind of guidance we could give them in a Floss Manual. > > Just for some history, Audacity was first released in 2000 (as version .8), and while i can't find an exact date for the 1.2 release, it had to have been before 2008. I first started playing around with the tool about 2010, but that machine has long since died and I don't know what the version was. 2.0 was released March of 2012. Anyway, running 1.2 now (and certainly trying to install it) would be kind of like wanting to install Office 2005, or Windows Vista. I'm sure there are people who do that, for whatever reason, but it seems like a real edge case. OTOH, I am definitely new to the Floss community, so I really have no idea who the the readers are other than folks I've met the past few weeks in this forum. So who knows. I'm just glad that people here have been so incredibly responsive. Namaste, > > Matt > > > From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 4:31 PM > To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite > > No problem. Thank you for your prompt review/feedback, Matt. > > I wasn?t sure what yours or other people?s feelings were about Audacity 1.2.5; that was why I didn?t delete it. For all I knew, some people might still use it on older machines. > > But I?ll be happy to take out the text "The latest stable version of Audacity for OS X can be downloaded from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac . The latest version at the time of writing this document is Audacity 1.2.5 (Intel) or Audacity 1.2.6a (PPC).? I?m glad you pointed this text out since I overlooked it. > > Audacity > audacity.sourceforge.net > Download Audacity for free. A free multi-track audio editor and recorder. Audacity is a free, easy-to-use, multi-track audio editor and recorder for Windows, Mac OS X, GNU/Linux and other operating systems. The interface is translated into many languages. > > > You sound like you know a lot about Audacity; probably much more than I do. I?m also glad you mentioned that you removed Audacity 1.x references from other parts of this manual (from what I understand, it?s most of the rest of this manual, no?). I have not looked at much of the rest of this manual. But I will. > > I?ll also be happy to delete and/or edit down the Audacity 1.2 section, since it looks like Audacity 2.2 is the version to emphasize. > > I will keep you posted on all this. > > Namaste, > > - Rosalind > >> On Jan 13, 2018, at 11:18 AM, M R > wrote: >> >> Hi Rosalind: >> >> I've reviewed your newly-added Mac install material, and i think it looks great. Very professional. As for leaving the 1.x material there, I'm of two minds (well, not really, but trying to be open-minded). It doesn't hurt (at least too much) since it's pushed to the bottom of the page; on the other hand there's no new language indicating that it's a legacy install, and instead the old material still begins with the text "The latest stable version of Audacity for OS X can be downloaded from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac . The latest version at the time of writing this document is Audacity 1.2.5 (Intel) or Audacity 1.2.6a (PPC)." BOTH of those statements are factually incorrect now. So a user might still be confused if they read to this point. >> >> I personally removed all traces of 1.x reference from the parts of the manual I rewrote (which is almost everything else). I think the key question is: what is the actual use case for a user needing a fresh or first-time install of a 1.x version of Audacity, on any OS? It seems very very narrow to me. I think it's still possible to find legacy 1.x install files from the main Audacity site (though not from SourceForge), but you'd really have to hunt the Audacity site and wiki to find supporting documentation for those early versions. Certainly nothing else in our own rewritten Floss manual supports it. And even if someone already knew the software well, and just had corrupted or lost their install, it's hard to imagine why they wouldn't upgrade. There are a ton of things you can't do in 1.1 and 1.2 that you can in 2.2, including lots of file types you can't open or export, let alone read other Audacity projects. So...if it were me, I would zap the old material completely. Or at a minimum, add language indicating that it is deprecated. But your call; this is your chapter. >> >> Thanks again for your work on this, >> >> best, >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > >> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 9:36 PM >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite >> >> Hi Matt: >> >> I have now included a section for installing Audacity 2.2.1 in the chapter for Installing Audacity on OS X in the flossmanuals.net book on Audacity, with screen shots. >> Floss Manuals - Free Manuals for Free Software >> flossmanuals.net >> A book community creating books of Free Culture and Free Software. >> >> >> I have also included a sub-section on setting up Audacity 2.2.1; i.e. opening it for the first time. >> >> I did not delete the section for Audacity 1.2.5. >> >> Looking forward to feedback, whenever you?re ready. >> >> Have a great weekend, Matt and everyone else here, >> >> - Rosalind >> >>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 11:17 PM, M R > wrote: >>> >>> that would be great, Rosalind, thanks. Let me know if you need anything from me. >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:20 PM >>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite >>> >>> I?d be happy to help out with this, since I?m a big Mac user, and have been one for years. >>> >>> I have dabbled with Audacity a little bit. >>> >>> - Rosalind >>> >>>> On Jan 9, 2018, at 8:11 PM, M R > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi folks: >>>> >>>> Looking for a Mac user, ideally with some awareness of the Audacity tool, though perhaps no previous experience at all would be just as helpful. >>>> >>>> I am in the process of rewriting the Audacity manual to reflect the fairly substantial changes from the initial (1.x) release to the latest (2.2.1). There are specific chapters on installation for Ubuntu and Mac OS that I cannot address, having no access at present to either OS. In addition, the chapter on Recording includes a long section on configuring your Mac for recording with Audacity (a bunch of specific steps you needn't take with Windows or Linux). Looking at the official Audacity documentation, it appears to me that much in this section no longer applies, but I can't tell for sure without Mac access. And to the extent that any of this Mac-specific recording config is still necessary, we'd need a Mac anyway to generate the new screenshots where necessary (and I'm guessing they would be, as I've had to replace every single Windows screenshot in the manual with a new one). So, any help on this score would be appreciated. The Mac and Ubuntu installation chapters, and this part of the Recording chapter, are the only parts I think can't be adequately covered with a Windows machine. >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> >>>> Matt Roberts >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? >>> >>> ... at Zazzle: >>> >>> New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here >> >> Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? >> >> ... at Zazzle: >> >> New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > > Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? > > ... at Zazzle: > > New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? ... at Zazzle: New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 14:50:20 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 22:50:20 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite In-Reply-To: <26A2A23C-7EA2-4B9E-B74A-F515DA65197E@seaserpent.com> References: <7965F7C4-33C1-43A6-9108-1CC06FF962E4@seaserpent.com> <6513A504-E42D-494E-856C-93BBCBA6A864@seaserpent.com> , <26A2A23C-7EA2-4B9E-B74A-F515DA65197E@seaserpent.com> Message-ID: That's funny -- we joined at the same time. Technically Mick Chesterman 'owns' the book in an admin sense (and I'm looking to him for final editorial review); I guess I'm supervising just to the extent that I initiated the re-write, and ended up doing most of it. So, if you're looking for a deciding word from me, I'd say kill the 1.2 stuff in the Mac chapter to keep it in line with rest of the manual. But I think the team is largely you and me on this one. I'm easy. It's your call. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Rosalind Lord Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2018 3:41 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite I?m new to the Floss community too. I joined about two or three weeks ago. Are you supervising this Audacity manual? I had the impression you were, which was another reason why I didn?t delete the Audacity 1.2 section. I thought I should consult with you first. I was doing another chapter in another Floss manual, and I was asked to consult with the rest of the team on that manual before I made any edits in that chapter. - Rosalind On Jan 13, 2018, at 6:09 PM, M R > wrote: Thanks, Rosalind. I do mean what i say about people owning their own chapters, but I figured I'd at least explain why I deleted all the old 1.x references from mine. If people are still running 1.x from years ago, and insist on sticking with it, then presumably they're beyond the kind of guidance we could give them in a Floss Manual. Just for some history, Audacity was first released in 2000 (as version .8), and while i can't find an exact date for the 1.2 release, it had to have been before 2008. I first started playing around with the tool about 2010, but that machine has long since died and I don't know what the version was. 2.0 was released March of 2012. Anyway, running 1.2 now (and certainly trying to install it) would be kind of like wanting to install Office 2005, or Windows Vista. I'm sure there are people who do that, for whatever reason, but it seems like a real edge case. OTOH, I am definitely new to the Floss community, so I really have no idea who the the readers are other than folks I've met the past few weeks in this forum. So who knows. I'm just glad that people here have been so incredibly responsive. Namaste, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 4:31 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite No problem. Thank you for your prompt review/feedback, Matt. I wasn?t sure what yours or other people?s feelings were about Audacity 1.2.5; that was why I didn?t delete it. For all I knew, some people might still use it on older machines. But I?ll be happy to take out the text "The latest stable version of Audacity for OS X can be downloaded from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac. The latest version at the time of writing this document is Audacity 1.2.5 (Intel) or Audacity 1.2.6a (PPC).? I?m glad you pointed this text out since I overlooked it. [https://a.fsdn.com/allura/p/audacity/icon?1507461951] Audacity audacity.sourceforge.net Download Audacity for free. A free multi-track audio editor and recorder. Audacity is a free, easy-to-use, multi-track audio editor and recorder for Windows, Mac OS X, GNU/Linux and other operating systems. The interface is translated into many languages. You sound like you know a lot about Audacity; probably much more than I do. I?m also glad you mentioned that you removed Audacity 1.x references from other parts of this manual (from what I understand, it?s most of the rest of this manual, no?). I have not looked at much of the rest of this manual. But I will. I?ll also be happy to delete and/or edit down the Audacity 1.2 section, since it looks like Audacity 2.2 is the version to emphasize. I will keep you posted on all this. Namaste, - Rosalind On Jan 13, 2018, at 11:18 AM, M R > wrote: Hi Rosalind: I've reviewed your newly-added Mac install material, and i think it looks great. Very professional. As for leaving the 1.x material there, I'm of two minds (well, not really, but trying to be open-minded). It doesn't hurt (at least too much) since it's pushed to the bottom of the page; on the other hand there's no new language indicating that it's a legacy install, and instead the old material still begins with the text "The latest stable version of Audacity for OS X can be downloaded from http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/mac. The latest version at the time of writing this document is Audacity 1.2.5 (Intel) or Audacity 1.2.6a (PPC)." BOTH of those statements are factually incorrect now. So a user might still be confused if they read to this point. I personally removed all traces of 1.x reference from the parts of the manual I rewrote (which is almost everything else). I think the key question is: what is the actual use case for a user needing a fresh or first-time install of a 1.x version of Audacity, on any OS? It seems very very narrow to me. I think it's still possible to find legacy 1.x install files from the main Audacity site (though not from SourceForge), but you'd really have to hunt the Audacity site and wiki to find supporting documentation for those early versions. Certainly nothing else in our own rewritten Floss manual supports it. And even if someone already knew the software well, and just had corrupted or lost their install, it's hard to imagine why they wouldn't upgrade. There are a ton of things you can't do in 1.1 and 1.2 that you can in 2.2, including lots of file types you can't open or export, let alone read other Audacity projects. So...if it were me, I would zap the old material completely. Or at a minimum, add language indicating that it is deprecated. But your call; this is your chapter. Thanks again for your work on this, best, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 9:36 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite Hi Matt: I have now included a section for installing Audacity 2.2.1 in the chapter for Installing Audacity on OS X in the flossmanuals.net book on Audacity, with screen shots. Floss Manuals - Free Manuals for Free Software flossmanuals.net A book community creating books of Free Culture and Free Software. I have also included a sub-section on setting up Audacity 2.2.1; i.e. opening it for the first time. I did not delete the section for Audacity 1.2.5. Looking forward to feedback, whenever you?re ready. Have a great weekend, Matt and everyone else here, - Rosalind On Jan 9, 2018, at 11:17 PM, M R > wrote: that would be great, Rosalind, thanks. Let me know if you need anything from me. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Rosalind Lord > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:20 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] need a Mac user for some help with Audacity manual rewrite I?d be happy to help out with this, since I?m a big Mac user, and have been one for years. I have dabbled with Audacity a little bit. - Rosalind On Jan 9, 2018, at 8:11 PM, M R > wrote: Hi folks: Looking for a Mac user, ideally with some awareness of the Audacity tool, though perhaps no previous experience at all would be just as helpful. I am in the process of rewriting the Audacity manual to reflect the fairly substantial changes from the initial (1.x) release to the latest (2.2.1). There are specific chapters on installation for Ubuntu and Mac OS that I cannot address, having no access at present to either OS. In addition, the chapter on Recording includes a long section on configuring your Mac for recording with Audacity (a bunch of specific steps you needn't take with Windows or Linux). Looking at the official Audacity documentation, it appears to me that much in this section no longer applies, but I can't tell for sure without Mac access. And to the extent that any of this Mac-specific recording config is still necessary, we'd need a Mac anyway to generate the new screenshots where necessary (and I'm guessing they would be, as I've had to replace every single Windows screenshot in the manual with a new one). So, any help on this score would be appreciated. The Mac and Ubuntu installation chapters, and this part of the Recording chapter, are the only parts I think can't be adequately covered with a Windows machine. thanks, Matt Roberts _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rclord at seaserpent.com Tue Jan 16 17:05:56 2018 From: rclord at seaserpent.com (Rosalind Lord) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 17:05:56 -0800 Subject: [FM Discuss] tweaked/added new section to chapter on installing Audacity 2.2.1 into Mac in Audacity manual Message-ID: Hi all: I am posting this here because I couldn?t find any Audacity groups, and I?m not a member of any Audacity teams in Gitlab. I added a new section to the end of the chapter on installing Audacity 2.2.1 into Macs. This section is on what to do with leftover plugins if you updated Audacity from a previous version to 2.2.1 (see lethttp://manual.audacityteam.org/man/installing_and_updating_audacity_on_mac_os_x.html#updates). Let me know if you need anything else, - Rosalind Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? ... at Zazzle: New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 17:58:42 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 01:58:42 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] tweaked/added new section to chapter on installing Audacity 2.2.1 into Mac in Audacity manual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds good, Rosalind. Thanks. ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Rosalind Lord Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 6:05 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: [FM Discuss] tweaked/added new section to chapter on installing Audacity 2.2.1 into Mac in Audacity manual Hi all: I am posting this here because I couldn?t find any Audacity groups, and I?m not a member of any Audacity teams in Gitlab. I added a new section to the end of the chapter on installing Audacity 2.2.1 into Macs. This section is on what to do with leftover plugins if you updated Audacity from a previous version to 2.2.1 (see lethttp://manual.audacityteam.org/man/installing_and_updating_audacity_on_mac_os_x.html#updates). Let me know if you need anything else, - Rosalind Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 13:04:52 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 21:04:52 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , , , <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk>, , <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mick: It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have day jobs ? (I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). thanks, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the chapter list screen. From: Discuss on behalf of M R Sent: 12 January 2018 10:55 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the LAME MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten more user-friendly over the years. "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Mon Jan 22 00:00:03 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 08:00:03 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , , , <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk>, , <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> HI there, This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? I can do it at the weekend if not. Thanks Mick Mick Chesterman Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & EdLab Project Developer Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. Manchester Metropolitan University Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: @EdLabMMU Phone: 0161 2472060 Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 18 January 2018 21:05 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have day jobs ? (I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). thanks, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the chapter list screen. From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: 12 January 2018 10:55 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the LAME MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten more user-friendly over the years. "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 19:31:45 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 03:31:45 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , , , <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk>, , <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> , <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in general with the folkways of FM. I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to each table, or adding a narrow border. But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book HI there, This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? I can do it at the weekend if not. Thanks Mick Mick Chesterman Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & EdLab Project Developer Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. Manchester Metropolitan University Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: @EdLabMMU EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... edlab.org.uk Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and student experience. Phone: 0161 2472060 Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 18 January 2018 21:05 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have day jobs ? (I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). thanks, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the chapter list screen. From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: 12 January 2018 10:55 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the LAME MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten more user-friendly over the years. "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Tue Jan 23 04:23:34 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 12:23:34 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <8e42b974-c7b0-7c10-dd9c-3085387fc264@iglou.com> <37cb90f7-c72d-a61d-6d26-c6af514ff44f@goos-habermann.de> <94630a18c1664dd28be578fe4c1a48db@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , , , <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk>, , <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> , <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: Ok I?ll be sure to check the tables and give some feedback on that. I remember you mentioning it. Mick From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 23 January 2018 03:32 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in general with the folkways of FM. I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to each table, or adding a narrow border. But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book HI there, This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? I can do it at the weekend if not. Thanks Mick Mick Chesterman Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & EdLab Project Developer Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. Manchester Metropolitan University Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: @EdLabMMU EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... edlab.org.uk Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and student experience. Phone: 0161 2472060 Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 18 January 2018 21:05 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick: It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have day jobs ? (I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). thanks, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of Mick Chesterman > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the chapter list screen. From: Discuss > on behalf of M R > Sent: 12 January 2018 10:55 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the LAME MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten more user-friendly over the years. "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maren at goos-habermann.de Tue Jan 23 15:15:34 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 00:15:34 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), and inherit the body font size. As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area to 13, too? CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent ul { font-size: 13px; line-height: 140%; margin: 1em 0; padding: 0; } Thanks, Maren Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: > Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me.? Maybe best to have > someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in general with > the folkways of FM. > > > I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific formatting > issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, aside from whatever > else comes up.? In the Menu Bar chapter there is extensive use of tables > to hold the menu information.? As I did wherever possible, here I > preserved the formatting from the original book, where these tables were > set to zero cell padding and no border.? This worked well enough in the > original version, when each cell entry was at most a single sentence in > length, and it resulted in a nice clean design.? However, Audacity 2.x's > much more extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably > longer entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how > readable the end result is for some tables.? I think the solution would > be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to each > table, or adding a narrow border.? But I didn't want to go either way > without consultation.? I don't think this issue afflicts any chapter > beyond the Menu Bar ch. > > > Matt? ? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Discuss on behalf of > Mick Chesterman > *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > ? > > HI there, > > ? > > This sounds good. Can ?anyone step forward to have a look over the > Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? > > I can do it at the weekend if not. > > ? > > Thanks > > Mick > > ? > > ? > > Mick Chesterman > > Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & > > EdLab Project Developer > > Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. > > Manchester Metropolitan University > > Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: @EdLabMMU > > EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... > edlab.org.uk > Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - > Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and > student experience. > > > Phone: 0161 2472060 > > ? > > /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday/ > > ? > > *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On > Behalf Of *M R > *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > ? > > Mick: > > ? > > It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their pieces to > the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so whenever you get a > chance at some quality control (just because I assume that someone needs > to, who hasn't been a writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and > get it published, to start helping whoever out there might actually want > to use it.?? > > ? > > Actually,?I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not sure > what the protocol is here.? But I just wanted to make sure this stays in > the queue as a near-term task.? I assume we all have day jobs??(I'm a > college professor so I was just on holiday break -- that's why I could > find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). > > ? > > thanks, > > ? > > Matt > > ? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of Mick > Chesterman > > *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > ? > > To exit? chapter titles you just double click into the title on the > chapter list screen. > > ? > > ? > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of M R > > > > *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > ? > > I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but > couldn't figure out a way to do that.? No big deal though, as the > current titles will serve.? I did drag one entire chapter out of the > to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 > INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the LAME > MP3 codec separately.? Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten > more user-friendly over the years. > > ? > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read > the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its > website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Tue Jan 23 23:59:11 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 07:59:11 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> References: <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Hi there, I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues Thanks Mick > -----Original Message----- > From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of > Maren Hachmann > Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 > To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: > The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default (12px > instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the lists are not > wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), and inherit the body > font size. > > As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the site, and > all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. > Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that might mess up > exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. > > Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area to 13, too? > > CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: > > #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent ul { > font-size: 13px; > line-height: 140%; > margin: 1em 0; > padding: 0; > } > > Thanks, > Maren > > Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: > > Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to have > > someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in general > > with the folkways of FM. > > > > > > I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific formatting > > issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, aside from > > whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there is extensive > > use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did wherever > > possible, here I preserved the formatting from the original book, > > where these tables were set to zero cell padding and no border. This > > worked well enough in the original version, when each cell entry was > > at most a single sentence in length, and it resulted in a nice clean > > design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more extensive use of submenus > > forced me to make considerably longer entries in some of those table > > cells, and I'm not certain how readable the end result is for some > > tables. I think the solution would be pretty straightforward: either > > adding a bit of cell padding to each table, or adding a narrow border. > > But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't > > think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Discuss on behalf of > > Mick Chesterman > > *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM > > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > > > HI there, > > > > > > > > This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the > > Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? > > > > I can do it at the weekend if not. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Mick > > > > > > > > > > > > Mick Chesterman > > > > Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & > > > > EdLab Project Developer > > > > Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. > > > > Manchester Metropolitan University > > > > Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: @EdLabMMU > > > > EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... > > > edlab.org.uk > > Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - > > Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and > > student experience. > > > > > > Phone: 0161 2472060 > > > > > > > > /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and > Thursday/ > > > > > > > > *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On > > Behalf Of *M R > > *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 > > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > > > > > Mick: > > > > > > > > It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their pieces to > > the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so whenever you get a > > chance at some quality control (just because I assume that someone needs > > to, who hasn't been a writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and > > get it published, to start helping whoever out there might actually want > > to use it. > > > > > > > > Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not sure > > what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure this stays in > > the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have day jobs ?(I'm a > > college professor so I was just on holiday break -- that's why I could > > find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *From:*Discuss > > on behalf of Mick > > Chesterman > > > *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM > > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > > > > > To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the > > chapter list screen. > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:*Discuss > > on behalf of M R > > > > > > > *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 > > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > > > > > I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but > > couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as the > > current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out of the > > to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 > > INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the > LAME > > MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten > > more user-friendly over the years. > > > > > > > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read > > the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its > > website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can > unsubscribe here > > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " From rclord at seaserpent.com Wed Jan 24 12:33:18 2018 From: rclord at seaserpent.com (Rosalind Lord) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 12:33:18 -0800 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> References: <1515314106179.68259@mmu.ac.uk> <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience coding HTML and CSS. - Rosalind > On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman wrote: > > Hi there, > > I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. > Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. > https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues > > Thanks > Mick > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net ] On Behalf Of >> Maren Hachmann >> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default (12px >> instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the lists are not >> wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), and inherit the body >> font size. >> >> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the site, and >> all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that might mess up >> exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >> >> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area to 13, too? >> >> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >> >> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent ul { >> font-size: 13px; >> line-height: 140%; >> margin: 1em 0; >> padding: 0; >> } >> >> Thanks, >> Maren >> >> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to have >>> someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in general >>> with the folkways of FM. >>> >>> >>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific formatting >>> issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, aside from >>> whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there is extensive >>> use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did wherever >>> possible, here I preserved the formatting from the original book, >>> where these tables were set to zero cell padding and no border. This >>> worked well enough in the original version, when each cell entry was >>> at most a single sentence in length, and it resulted in a nice clean >>> design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more extensive use of submenus >>> forced me to make considerably longer entries in some of those table >>> cells, and I'm not certain how readable the end result is for some >>> tables. I think the solution would be pretty straightforward: either >>> adding a bit of cell padding to each table, or adding a narrow border. >>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >>> >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* Discuss on behalf of >>> Mick Chesterman >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>> >>> HI there, >>> >>> >>> >>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >>> >>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Mick >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Mick Chesterman >>> >>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >>> >>> EdLab Project Developer >>> >>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >>> >>> Manchester Metropolitan University >>> >>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: @EdLabMMU >>> >>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >> >>> edlab.org.uk >>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >>> student experience. >>> >>> >>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >>> >>> >>> >>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >> Thursday/ >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>> Behalf Of *M R >>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>> >>> >>> Mick: >>> >>> >>> >>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their pieces to >>> the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so whenever you get a >>> chance at some quality control (just because I assume that someone needs >>> to, who hasn't been a writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and >>> get it published, to start helping whoever out there might actually want >>> to use it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not sure >>> what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure this stays in >>> the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have day jobs ?(I'm a >>> college professor so I was just on holiday break -- that's why I could >>> find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >>> >>> >>> >>> thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:*Discuss >> > on behalf of Mick >>> Chesterman > > >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>> >>> >>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >>> chapter list screen. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:*Discuss >> > on behalf of M R >>> > >>> >>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>> >>> >>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but >>> couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as the >>> current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out of the >>> to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 >>> INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the >> LAME >>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten >>> more user-friendly over the years. >>> >>> >>> >>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read >>> the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its >>> website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can >> unsubscribe here >>> >> > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maren at goos-habermann.de Wed Jan 24 13:34:01 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 22:34:01 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> References: <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> Message-ID: <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. Thank you very much, Mick! Maren Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: > Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience > coding HTML and CSS. > > - Rosalind > >> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman > > wrote: >> >> Hi there, >> >> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >> >> Thanks >> Mick >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On >>> Behalf Of >>> Maren Hachmann >>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >>> To:?discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default (12px >>> instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the lists >>> are not >>> wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), and inherit the >>> body >>> font size. >>> >>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >>> site, and >>> all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >>> might mess up >>> exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >>> >>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >>> to 13, too? >>> >>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >>> >>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent ul { >>> font-size: 13px; >>> line-height: 140%; >>> margin: 1em 0; >>> padding: 0; >>> } >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Maren >>> >>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. ?Maybe best to have >>>> someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in general >>>> with the folkways of FM. >>>> >>>> >>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific formatting >>>> issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, aside from >>>> whatever else comes up. ?In the Menu Bar chapter there is extensive >>>> use of tables to hold the menu information. ?As I did wherever >>>> possible, here I preserved the formatting from the original book, >>>> where these tables were set to zero cell padding and no border. ?This >>>> worked well enough in the original version, when each cell entry was >>>> at most a single sentence in length, and it resulted in a nice clean >>>> design. ?However, Audacity 2.x's much more extensive use of submenus >>>> forced me to make considerably longer entries in some of those table >>>> cells, and I'm not certain how readable the end result is for some >>>> tables. ?I think the solution would be pretty straightforward: either >>>> adding a bit of cell padding to each table, or adding a narrow border. >>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. ?I don't >>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Discuss >>> > on behalf of >>>> Mick Chesterman > >>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>> >>>> HI there, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This sounds good. Can ?anyone step forward to have a look over the >>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >>>> >>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Mick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mick Chesterman >>>> >>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >>>> >>>> EdLab Project Developer >>>> >>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >>>> >>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >>>> >>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: @EdLabMMU >>>> >>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >>> >>>> edlab.org.uk >>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >>>> student experience. >>>> >>>> >>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >>> Thursday/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>>> Behalf Of *M R >>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mick: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their pieces to >>>> the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so whenever you get a >>>> chance at some quality control (just because I assume that someone needs >>>> to, who hasn't been a writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and >>>> get it published, to start helping whoever out there might actually want >>>> to use it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not sure >>>> what the protocol is here. ?But I just wanted to make sure this stays in >>>> the queue as a near-term task. ?I assume we all have day jobs ?(I'm a >>>> college professor so I was just on holiday break -- that's why I could >>>> find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:*Discuss >>> >>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>> Chesterman >>> > >>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To exit ?chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >>>> chapter list screen. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:*Discuss >>> >>>> > on behalf of M R >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, but >>>> couldn't figure out a way to do that. ?No big deal though, as the >>>> current titles will serve. ?I did drag one entire chapter out of the >>>> to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was "MP3 >>>> INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to install the >>> LAME >>>> MP3 codec separately. ?Just one of many ways that Audacity has gotten >>>> more user-friendly over the years. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read >>>> the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its >>>> website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>> - you can >>> unsubscribe here >>>> >>> >> >> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available >> on its website?http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer?" >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net?- >> you can unsubscribe here > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Bildschirmfoto_2018-01-24_22-18-29-fs8.png Type: image/png Size: 28465 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 00:04:14 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 08:04:14 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> References: <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: Great but strange. What URL are you testing I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ Thanks Mick > -----Original Message----- > From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of > Maren Hachmann > Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 > To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. > > Thank you very much, Mick! > > Maren > > Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: > > Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience > > coding HTML and CSS. > > > > - Rosalind > > > >> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman > >> > wrote: > >> > >> Hi there, > >> > >> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. > >> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. > >> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues > >> > >> Thanks > >> Mick > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On > >>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann > >>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 > >>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>> > >>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: > >>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default > >>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the > >>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), > >>> and inherit the body font size. > >>> > >>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the > >>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. > >>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that > >>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. > >>> > >>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area > >>> to 13, too? > >>> > >>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: > >>> > >>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent > >>> ul { > >>> font-size: 13px; > >>> line-height: 140%; > >>> margin: 1em 0; > >>> padding: 0; > >>> } > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Maren > >>> > >>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: > >>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to > >>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in > >>>> general with the folkways of FM. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific > >>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, > >>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there > >>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did > >>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the > >>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and > >>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when > >>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it > >>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more > >>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer > >>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how > >>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution > >>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to > each table, or adding a narrow border. > >>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't > >>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Matt > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> ----- > >>>> *From:* Discuss >>>> > on behalf of Mick > >>>> Chesterman > > >>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM > >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>> > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> HI there, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the > >>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? > >>>> > >>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> > >>>> Mick > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Mick Chesterman > >>>> > >>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & > >>>> > >>>> EdLab Project Developer > >>>> > >>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. > >>>> > >>>> Manchester Metropolitan University > >>>> > >>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: > >>>> @EdLabMMU > >>>> > >>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... > >>> > >>>> edlab.org.uk > >>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - > >>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and > >>>> student experience. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and > >>> Thursday/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On > >>>> Behalf Of *M R > >>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 > >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>> > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Mick: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their > >>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so > >>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I > >>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a > >>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, > >>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not > >>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure > >>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have > >>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break > >>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> thanks, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Matt > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> ----- > >>>> > >>>> *From:*Discuss >>>> > >>>> > on behalf of Mick > >>>> Chesterman > >>> > > >>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM > >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>> > >>> > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the > >>>> chapter list screen. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> *From:*Discuss >>>> > >>>> > on behalf of M R > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 > >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>> > >>> > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, > >>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as > >>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out > >>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was > >>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to > >>>> install the > >>> LAME > >>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has > >>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer > >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>> > >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > >>>> - you can > >>> unsubscribe here > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > >> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer > >> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Discuss mailing list > >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >> > >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > >> you can unsubscribe here > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > > you can unsubscribe here > > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " From maren at goos-habermann.de Thu Jan 25 06:35:58 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 15:35:58 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de> Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? Maren Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > Great but strange. > > What URL are you testing > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ > > Thanks > Mick >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >> Maren Hachmann >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. >> >> Thank you very much, Mick! >> >> Maren >> >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience >>> coding HTML and CSS. >>> >>> - Rosalind >>> >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman >> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Mick >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>> >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), >>>>> and inherit the body font size. >>>>> >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >>>>> >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >>>>> to 13, too? >>>>> >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >>>>> >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent >>>>> ul { >>>>> font-size: 13px; >>>>> line-height: 140%; >>>>> margin: 1em 0; >>>>> padding: 0; >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Maren >>>>> >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to >> each table, or adding a narrow border. >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> *From:* Discuss >>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HI there, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >>>>>> >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick Chesterman >>>>>> >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer >>>>>> >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >>>>>> >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: >>>>>> @EdLabMMU >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >>>>> >>>>>> edlab.org.uk >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >>>>>> student experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >>>>> Thursday/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman > >>>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >>>>>> chapter list screen. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of M R >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to >>>>>> install the >>>>> LAME >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>>>> - you can >>>>> unsubscribe here >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >> > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From Martin.Kean at op.ac.nz Thu Jan 25 15:01:59 2018 From: Martin.Kean at op.ac.nz (Martin Kean) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:01:59 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de> References: <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> , <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: Hi Maren and Matt, I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity manual need proofreading? Username: katou Email: katou at live.it Thanks, Martin ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann Sent: Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? Maren Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > Great but strange. > > What URL are you testing > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ > > Thanks > Mick >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >> Maren Hachmann >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. >> >> Thank you very much, Mick! >> >> Maren >> >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience >>> coding HTML and CSS. >>> >>> - Rosalind >>> >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman >> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Mick >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>> >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), >>>>> and inherit the body font size. >>>>> >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >>>>> >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >>>>> to 13, too? >>>>> >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >>>>> >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent >>>>> ul { >>>>> font-size: 13px; >>>>> line-height: 140%; >>>>> margin: 1em 0; >>>>> padding: 0; >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Maren >>>>> >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to >> each table, or adding a narrow border. >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> *From:* Discuss >>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HI there, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >>>>>> >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick Chesterman >>>>>> >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer >>>>>> >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >>>>>> >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: >>>>>> @EdLabMMU >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >>>>> >>>>>> edlab.org.uk >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >>>>>> student experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >>>>> Thursday/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman > >>>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >>>>>> chapter list screen. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of M R >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to >>>>>> install the >>>>> LAME >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>>>> - you can >>>>> unsubscribe here >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >> > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 16:14:56 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 00:14:56 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> , <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de>, Message-ID: Hi Martin: It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten as part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users. Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only working language (at the level of something like this manual) is English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision into other languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate project. Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional functionality. Which would, again, though, be something we'd want to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Martin Kean Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Maren and Matt, I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity manual need proofreading? Username: katou Email: katou at live.it Thanks, Martin ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann Sent: Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? Maren Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > Great but strange. > > What URL are you testing > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... write.flossmanuals.net Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... > > Thanks > Mick >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >> Maren Hachmann >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. >> >> Thank you very much, Mick! >> >> Maren >> >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience >>> coding HTML and CSS. >>> >>> - Rosalind >>> >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman >> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Mick >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>> >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), >>>>> and inherit the body font size. >>>>> >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >>>>> >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >>>>> to 13, too? >>>>> >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >>>>> >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent >>>>> ul { >>>>> font-size: 13px; >>>>> line-height: 140%; >>>>> margin: 1em 0; >>>>> padding: 0; >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Maren >>>>> >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to >> each table, or adding a narrow border. >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> *From:* Discuss >>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HI there, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >>>>>> >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick Chesterman >>>>>> >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer >>>>>> >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >>>>>> >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: >>>>>> @EdLabMMU >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >>>>> >>>>>> edlab.org.uk >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >>>>>> student experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >>>>> Thursday/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman > >>>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >>>>>> chapter list screen. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of M R >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to >>>>>> install the >>>>> LAME >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>>>> - you can >>>>> unsubscribe here >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >> > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mick at flossmanuals.net Fri Jan 26 05:22:14 2018 From: mick at flossmanuals.net (mick at flossmanuals.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 13:22:14 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de> References: <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: On 25/01/18 14:35, Maren Hachmann wrote: > Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? > > Maren Yes you are right! Hangs head in shame! Clearly it's been a while for me doing any dev work. Mick From mick at flossmanuals.net Sat Jan 27 03:04:36 2018 From: mick at flossmanuals.net (mick at flossmanuals.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:04:36 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> References: <82d0d0fb62df45c28e24daa9f7a61f5f@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> Message-ID: <70d5d2cf-71db-3d12-7694-4dd33588f3f2@flossmanuals.net> On 24/01/18 20:33, Rosalind Lord wrote: > Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience > coding HTML and CSS. > > - Rosalind Thanks for the offer on this. We may well need your help soon! Thanks Mick From mick at flossmanuals.net Sat Jan 27 03:09:44 2018 From: mick at flossmanuals.net (mick at flossmanuals.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:09:44 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: <6b389df7-c5fb-4f7a-ab0b-8f81c9b9a720@flossmanuals.net> Hi there, I've had a chance to review this, Great work! Just one thing I think needs to be looked at * There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does seem like this might need some simplification here Here are some thing I did. * I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. * I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. * I've increased the max-width of image display to 800px , height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. Good work. I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the file menus in the appendix. That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's just a suggestion tho. Thanks Mick On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: > > Hi Martin: > > > It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten as > part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this weekend, > but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as long as > Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap this up > and get it republished so it can actually get to users. Localization > is another and certainly important issue: my only working language (at > the level of something like this manual) is English, and if someone > wanted to translate the revision into other languages that would be a > good thing, but also I think a separate project. Finally, I don't > know if Katou has prior expertise with Audacity, but if so, you could > mention that this manual is far from comprehensive, esp in the 'How > to' or tutorial chapters, and there's always opportunity to add in > more chapters with additional functionality. Which would, again, > though, be something we'd want to address in a further iteration of > the manual, not the imminent one. > > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Discuss on behalf of > Martin Kean > *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > Hi Maren and Matt, > > > I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading and > localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity manual > need proofreading? > > > Username: katou > Email: katou at live.it > > > Thanks, Martin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Discuss on behalf of > Maren Hachmann > *Sent:* Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? > > Maren > > Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > > Great but strange. > > > > What URL are you testing > > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox > > > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ > > /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... > > write.flossmanuals.net > Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for trying > out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: Ctrl + A. > This is a special note ... > > > > > > > Thanks > > Mick > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On > Behalf Of > >> Maren Hachmann > >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 > >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >> > >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see > screenshot. > >> > >> Thank you very much, Mick! > >> > >> Maren > >> > >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: > >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience > >>> coding HTML and CSS. > >>> > >>> - Rosalind > >>> > >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman > >> >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi there, > >>>> > >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. > >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. > >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> Mick > >>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On > >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann > >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 > >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>> > >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: > >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default > >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the > >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), > >>>>> and inherit the body font size. > >>>>> > >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the > >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. > >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that > >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. > >>>>> > >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area > >>>>> to 13, too? > >>>>> > >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: > >>>>> > >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent > >>>>> ul { > >>>>> font-size: 13px; > >>>>> line-height: 140%; > >>>>> margin: 1em 0; > >>>>> padding: 0; > >>>>> } > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Maren > >>>>> > >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: > >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to > >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in > >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific > >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, > >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there > >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did > >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the > >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and > >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when > >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it > >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more > >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer > >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how > >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution > >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell > padding to > >> each table, or adding a narrow border. > >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't > >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Matt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> ----- > >>>>>> *From:* Discuss >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick > >>>>>> Chesterman >> > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> HI there, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the > >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front > page? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick Chesterman > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & > >>>>>> > >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: > >>>>>> @EdLabMMU > >>>>>> > >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... > >>>>> > >>>>>> edlab.org.uk > >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - > >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and > >>>>>> student experience. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and > >>>>> Thursday/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On > >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R > >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their > >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so > >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I > >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a > >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, > >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not > >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure > >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have > >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break > >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the > rewrite). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> thanks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Matt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> ----- > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>>> > >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick > >>>>>> Chesterman >> > >>>>> > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the > >>>>>> chapter list screen. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>>> > >>>>>> > on behalf of M R > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, > >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as > >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out > >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was > >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to > >>>>>> install the > >>>>> LAME > >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has > >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer > >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> - you can > >>>>> unsubscribe here > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer > >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>> > >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > >>>> you can unsubscribe here > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Discuss mailing list > >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > >>> you can unsubscribe here > >>> > >> > > > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available > on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > - you can unsubscribe here > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 12:04:13 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 20:04:13 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: <6b389df7-c5fb-4f7a-ab0b-8f81c9b9a720@flossmanuals.net> References: <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de> , <6b389df7-c5fb-4f7a-ab0b-8f81c9b9a720@flossmanuals.net> Message-ID: Mick (et al): All great stuff on your changes and review. Thanks for addressing the table issue in the Menu chapter. And the image max-width: I didn't even know that could be adjusted. I had just ended up making all of my screenshots smaller so as to get around that distortion issue. I think the ePub book proof looks really good. The pdf one doesn't seem to handle page-breaks very gracefully (among other issues), but it doesn't appear that there's a way to handle that at the level of the content-edit platform itself. Nor does the pdf seem to auto-generate a table of contents, which is a more significant failing -- but again these must be issues common to all Floss manuals in pdf. Or maybe there are settings you can fiddle with specific to generating PDFs on the platform. In the "Recording" chapter, yes I do still see my bracketed comment/query about whether that Mac-specific config stuff was still applicable to 2.x. Certainly we should remove the comment. But it's still an open question to me whether we should remove any or all of the original Mac config info that follows too--and I think that can only be settled via experimentation with a Mac. So Rosalind or another Mac person will have to address that. I think we decided in general that we would *not* preserve in this manual any info pertaining only to 1.x versions of Audacity, at least unless it was clearly flagged as such. Mick, as to your final suggestion about moving the chapters around, I certainly see the logic insofar as the Tutorial chapters are much more 'fun'/interesting to read (as they were to re-write). However, there is probably a more compelling logic to walking through the UI systematically before diving into those tutorials, since at many points they embed the assumption that you know where to find a given menu item, or they only use the quickest shorthand (like "Go to Edit > Tracks > Split Track") rather than giving you screenshots or any more detailed guidance on the UI. Further, at least in the ePub format where the menu is readily accessible, it's easy enough for the reader to skip straight to the tutorials if they choose to. That is another reason, though, why having a TOC (and ideally a clickable one) is pretty vital for the PDF version too. Anyway, thanks again for your work on this. If Rosalind can take a look at that Mac config stuff in the Record chapter, and if you know any magic you can do with the PDF-generate settings, then I think we're good to go for this iteration. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of mick at flossmanuals.net Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 4:09 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi there, I've had a chance to review this, Great work! Just one thing I think needs to be looked at * There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does seem like this might need some simplification here Here are some thing I did. * I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. * I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. * I've increased the max-width of image display to 800px , height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. Good work. I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the file menus in the appendix. That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's just a suggestion tho. Thanks Mick On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: Hi Martin: It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten as part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users. Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only working language (at the level of something like this manual) is English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision into other languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate project. Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional functionality. Which would, again, though, be something we'd want to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Martin Kean Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Maren and Matt, I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity manual need proofreading? Username: katou Email: katou at live.it Thanks, Martin ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann Sent: Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? Maren Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > Great but strange. > > What URL are you testing > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... write.flossmanuals.net Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... > > Thanks > Mick >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >> Maren Hachmann >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. >> >> Thank you very much, Mick! >> >> Maren >> >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience >>> coding HTML and CSS. >>> >>> - Rosalind >>> >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman >> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Mick >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>> >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), >>>>> and inherit the body font size. >>>>> >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >>>>> >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >>>>> to 13, too? >>>>> >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >>>>> >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent >>>>> ul { >>>>> font-size: 13px; >>>>> line-height: 140%; >>>>> margin: 1em 0; >>>>> padding: 0; >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Maren >>>>> >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to >> each table, or adding a narrow border. >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> *From:* Discuss >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman >> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HI there, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >>>>>> >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick Chesterman >>>>>> >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer >>>>>> >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >>>>>> >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: >>>>>> @EdLabMMU >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >>>>> >>>>>> edlab.org.uk >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >>>>>> student experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >>>>> Thursday/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman >> >>>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >>>>>> chapter list screen. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of M R >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to >>>>>> install the >>>>> LAME >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>>>> - you can >>>>> unsubscribe here >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >> > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Mon Jan 29 00:25:37 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 08:25:37 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype Message-ID: <58eab5503ad64265a8449c2bac334818@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Hi Matt, Regards your question below about pdf generation. I have to admit I know next to nothing about this. My focus has always been on the web side of things. It would be good if people could share any info they have. We are using booktype 1.6. So I did a bit of research. There is some info on some of those aspects in the docs CSS formatting http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/adding-css/ CSS tricks http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/some-tricks/ A tip to insert Page breaks as a hack to avoid orphans and widows in pdfs http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/editing-a-chapter/ Thanks Mick From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 27 January 2018 20:04 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick (et al): All great stuff on your changes and review. Thanks for addressing the table issue in the Menu chapter. And the image max-width: I didn't even know that could be adjusted. I had just ended up making all of my screenshots smaller so as to get around that distortion issue. I think the ePub book proof looks really good. The pdf one doesn't seem to handle page-breaks very gracefully (among other issues), but it doesn't appear that there's a way to handle that at the level of the content-edit platform itself. Nor does the pdf seem to auto-generate a table of contents, which is a more significant failing -- but again these must be issues common to all Floss manuals in pdf. Or maybe there are settings you can fiddle with specific to generating PDFs on the platform. In the "Recording" chapter, yes I do still see my bracketed comment/query about whether that Mac-specific config stuff was still applicable to 2.x. Certainly we should remove the comment. But it's still an open question to me whether we should remove any or all of the original Mac config info that follows too--and I think that can only be settled via experimentation with a Mac. So Rosalind or another Mac person will have to address that. I think we decided in general that we would *not* preserve in this manual any info pertaining only to 1.x versions of Audacity, at least unless it was clearly flagged as such. Mick, as to your final suggestion about moving the chapters around, I certainly see the logic insofar as the Tutorial chapters are much more 'fun'/interesting to read (as they were to re-write). However, there is probably a more compelling logic to walking through the UI systematically before diving into those tutorials, since at many points they embed the assumption that you know where to find a given menu item, or they only use the quickest shorthand (like "Go to Edit > Tracks > Split Track") rather than giving you screenshots or any more detailed guidance on the UI. Further, at least in the ePub format where the menu is readily accessible, it's easy enough for the reader to skip straight to the tutorials if they choose to. That is another reason, though, why having a TOC (and ideally a clickable one) is pretty vital for the PDF version too. Anyway, thanks again for your work on this. If Rosalind can take a look at that Mac config stuff in the Record chapter, and if you know any magic you can do with the PDF-generate settings, then I think we're good to go for this iteration. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of mick at flossmanuals.net > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 4:09 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi there, I've had a chance to review this, Great work! Just one thing I think needs to be looked at * There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does seem like this might need some simplification here Here are some thing I did. * I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. * I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. * I've increased the max-width of image display to 800px , height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. Good work. I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the file menus in the appendix. That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's just a suggestion tho. Thanks Mick On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: Hi Martin: It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten as part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users. Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only working language (at the level of something like this manual) is English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision into other languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate project. Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional functionality. Which would, again, though, be something we'd want to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Martin Kean Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Maren and Matt, I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity manual need proofreading? Username: katou Email: katou at live.it Thanks, Martin ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann Sent: Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? Maren Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > Great but strange. > > What URL are you testing > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... write.flossmanuals.net Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... > > Thanks > Mick >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >> Maren Hachmann >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. >> >> Thank you very much, Mick! >> >> Maren >> >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience >>> coding HTML and CSS. >>> >>> - Rosalind >>> >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman >> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Mick >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>> >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), >>>>> and inherit the body font size. >>>>> >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >>>>> >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >>>>> to 13, too? >>>>> >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >>>>> >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent >>>>> ul { >>>>> font-size: 13px; >>>>> line-height: 140%; >>>>> margin: 1em 0; >>>>> padding: 0; >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Maren >>>>> >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to >> each table, or adding a narrow border. >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> *From:* Discuss >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman >> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HI there, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >>>>>> >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick Chesterman >>>>>> >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer >>>>>> >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >>>>>> >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: >>>>>> @EdLabMMU >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >>>>> >>>>>> edlab.org.uk >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >>>>>> student experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >>>>> Thursday/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman >> >>>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >>>>>> chapter list screen. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of M R >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to >>>>>> install the >>>>> LAME >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>>>> - you can >>>>> unsubscribe here >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >> > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rclord at seaserpent.com Mon Jan 29 01:17:08 2018 From: rclord at seaserpent.com (Rosalind Lord) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 01:17:08 -0800 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de> <6b389df7-c5fb-4f7a-ab0b-8f81c9b9a720@flossmanuals.net> Message-ID: Matt, I?ll be happy to look over and/or edit the Mac config section in the Recording chapter. - Rosalind > On Jan 27, 2018, at 12:04 PM, M R wrote: > > Mick (et al): > > All great stuff on your changes and review. Thanks for addressing the table issue in the Menu chapter. And the image max-width: I didn't even know that could be adjusted. I had just ended up making all of my screenshots smaller so as to get around that distortion issue. > > I think the ePub book proof looks really good. The pdf one doesn't seem to handle page-breaks very gracefully (among other issues), but it doesn't appear that there's a way to handle that at the level of the content-edit platform itself. Nor does the pdf seem to auto-generate a table of contents, which is a more significant failing -- but again these must be issues common to all Floss manuals in pdf. Or maybe there are settings you can fiddle with specific to generating PDFs on the platform. > > In the "Recording" chapter, yes I do still see my bracketed comment/query about whether that Mac-specific config stuff was still applicable to 2.x. Certainly we should remove the comment. But it's still an open question to me whether we should remove any or all of the original Mac config info that follows too--and I think that can only be settled via experimentation with a Mac. So Rosalind or another Mac person will have to address that. I think we decided in general that we would *not* preserve in this manual any info pertaining only to 1.x versions of Audacity, at least unless it was clearly flagged as such. > > Mick, as to your final suggestion about moving the chapters around, I certainly see the logic insofar as the Tutorial chapters are much more 'fun'/interesting to read (as they were to re-write). However, there is probably a more compelling logic to walking through the UI systematically before diving into those tutorials, since at many points they embed the assumption that you know where to find a given menu item, or they only use the quickest shorthand (like "Go to Edit > Tracks > Split Track") rather than giving you screenshots or any more detailed guidance on the UI. Further, at least in the ePub format where the menu is readily accessible, it's easy enough for the reader to skip straight to the tutorials if they choose to. That is another reason, though, why having a TOC (and ideally a clickable one) is pretty vital for the PDF version too. > > Anyway, thanks again for your work on this. If Rosalind can take a look at that Mac config stuff in the Record chapter, and if you know any magic you can do with the PDF-generate settings, then I think we're good to go for this iteration. > > Matt > > > > > From: Discuss on behalf of mick at flossmanuals.net > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 4:09 AM > To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > Hi there, > > I've had a chance to review this, Great work! > > Just one thing I think needs to be looked at > There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does seem like this might need some simplification here > Here are some thing I did. > I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. > I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. > I've increased the max-width of image display to 800px , height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, > > I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. > http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub > http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf > > > More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. Good work. > I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the file menus in the appendix. > That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's just a suggestion tho. > > > Thanks > Mick > > > On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: >> Hi Martin: >> >> It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten as part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users. Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only working language (at the level of something like this manual) is English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision into other languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate project. Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional functionality. Which would, again, though, be something we'd want to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. >> >> Matt >> >> >> From: Discuss on behalf of Martin Kean >> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> Hi Maren and Matt, >> >> I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity manual need proofreading? >> >> Username: katou >> Email: katou at live.it >> >> Thanks, Martin >> From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann >> Sent: Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? >> >> Maren >> >> Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: >> > Great but strange. >> > >> > What URL are you testing >> > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox >> > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ >> /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... >> write.flossmanuals.net >> Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... >> >> >> > >> > Thanks >> > Mick >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net ] On Behalf Of >> >> Maren Hachmann >> >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 >> >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> >> >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. >> >> >> >> Thank you very much, Mick! >> >> >> >> Maren >> >> >> >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >> >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience >> >>> coding HTML and CSS. >> >>> >> >>> - Rosalind >> >>> >> >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman >> >> >> >>>> >> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi there, >> >>>> >> >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >> >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >> >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks >> >>>> Mick >> >>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net ] On >> >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann >> >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >> >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >> >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default >> >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the >> >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), >> >>>>> and inherit the body font size. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >> >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >> >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >> >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >> >>>>> to 13, too? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent >> >>>>> ul { >> >>>>> font-size: 13px; >> >>>>> line-height: 140%; >> >>>>> margin: 1em 0; >> >>>>> padding: 0; >> >>>>> } >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>> Maren >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >> >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to >> >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in >> >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific >> >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, >> >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there >> >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did >> >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the >> >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and >> >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when >> >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it >> >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more >> >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer >> >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how >> >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution >> >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to >> >> each table, or adding a narrow border. >> >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >> >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Matt >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>>> ----- >> >>>>>> *From:* Discuss >> >>>>>> >> on behalf of Mick >> >>>>>> Chesterman >> >> >> >> >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> HI there, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >> >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Thanks >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mick >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mick Chesterman >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk > / Twitter: >> >>>>>> @EdLabMMU >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> edlab.org.uk > >> >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >> >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >> >>>>>> student experience. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >> >>>>> Thursday/ >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net ] *On >> >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R >> >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mick: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their >> >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so >> >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I >> >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a >> >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, >> >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not >> >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure >> >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have >> >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break >> >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> thanks, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Matt >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>>> ----- >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >> on behalf of Mick >> >>>>>> Chesterman >> >> > >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >> >>>>>> chapter list screen. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >> on behalf of M R >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, >> >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as >> >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out >> >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was >> >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to >> >>>>>> install the >> >>>>> LAME >> >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has >> >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >> >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >> >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >> >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> - you can >> >>>>> unsubscribe here >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >> >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >> >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Discuss mailing list >> >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>> > >> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >> >>>> you can unsubscribe here >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Discuss mailing list >> >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >> >>> you can unsubscribe here >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Discuss mailing list >> > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here >> > >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts ? ... at Zazzle: New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Mon Jan 29 02:08:51 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 10:08:51 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <1515752050448.97437@mmu.ac.uk> <1515755527327.19255@mmu.ac.uk> <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de> <6b389df7-c5fb-4f7a-ab0b-8f81c9b9a720@flossmanuals.net> , Message-ID: thanks, Rosalind -- that would be great. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Rosalind Lord Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 2:17 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Matt, I?ll be happy to look over and/or edit the Mac config section in the Recording chapter. - Rosalind On Jan 27, 2018, at 12:04 PM, M R > wrote: Mick (et al): All great stuff on your changes and review. Thanks for addressing the table issue in the Menu chapter. And the image max-width: I didn't even know that could be adjusted. I had just ended up making all of my screenshots smaller so as to get around that distortion issue. I think the ePub book proof looks really good. The pdf one doesn't seem to handle page-breaks very gracefully (among other issues), but it doesn't appear that there's a way to handle that at the level of the content-edit platform itself. Nor does the pdf seem to auto-generate a table of contents, which is a more significant failing -- but again these must be issues common to all Floss manuals in pdf. Or maybe there are settings you can fiddle with specific to generating PDFs on the platform. In the "Recording" chapter, yes I do still see my bracketed comment/query about whether that Mac-specific config stuff was still applicable to 2.x. Certainly we should remove the comment. But it's still an open question to me whether we should remove any or all of the original Mac config info that follows too--and I think that can only be settled via experimentation with a Mac. So Rosalind or another Mac person will have to address that. I think we decided in general that we would *not* preserve in this manual any info pertaining only to 1.x versions of Audacity, at least unless it was clearly flagged as such. Mick, as to your final suggestion about moving the chapters around, I certainly see the logic insofar as the Tutorial chapters are much more 'fun'/interesting to read (as they were to re-write). However, there is probably a more compelling logic to walking through the UI systematically before diving into those tutorials, since at many points they embed the assumption that you know where to find a given menu item, or they only use the quickest shorthand (like "Go to Edit > Tracks > Split Track") rather than giving you screenshots or any more detailed guidance on the UI. Further, at least in the ePub format where the menu is readily accessible, it's easy enough for the reader to skip straight to the tutorials if they choose to. That is another reason, though, why having a TOC (and ideally a clickable one) is pretty vital for the PDF version too. Anyway, thanks again for your work on this. If Rosalind can take a look at that Mac config stuff in the Record chapter, and if you know any magic you can do with the PDF-generate settings, then I think we're good to go for this iteration. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of mick at flossmanuals.net > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 4:09 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi there, I've had a chance to review this, Great work! Just one thing I think needs to be looked at * There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does seem like this might need some simplification here Here are some thing I did. * I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. * I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. * I've increased the max-width of image display to 800px , height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. Good work. I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the file menus in the appendix. That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's just a suggestion tho. Thanks Mick On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: Hi Martin: It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten as part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users. Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only working language (at the level of something like this manual) is English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision into other languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate project. Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional functionality. Which would, again, though, be something we'd want to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Martin Kean Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Maren and Matt, I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity manual need proofreading? Username: katou Email: katou at live.it Thanks, Martin ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann Sent: Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? Maren Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > Great but strange. > > What URL are you testing > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... write.flossmanuals.net Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... > > Thanks > Mick >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >> Maren Hachmann >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. >> >> Thank you very much, Mick! >> >> Maren >> >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience >>> coding HTML and CSS. >>> >>> - Rosalind >>> >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman >> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Mick >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>> >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), >>>>> and inherit the body font size. >>>>> >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >>>>> >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >>>>> to 13, too? >>>>> >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >>>>> >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent >>>>> ul { >>>>> font-size: 13px; >>>>> line-height: 140%; >>>>> margin: 1em 0; >>>>> padding: 0; >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Maren >>>>> >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to >> each table, or adding a narrow border. >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> *From:* Discuss >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman >> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HI there, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >>>>>> >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick Chesterman >>>>>> >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer >>>>>> >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >>>>>> >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: >>>>>> @EdLabMMU >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >>>>> >>>>>> edlab.org.uk > >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >>>>>> student experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >>>>> Thursday/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman >> >>>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >>>>>> chapter list screen. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of M R >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to >>>>>> install the >>>>> LAME >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>>>> - you can >>>>> unsubscribe here >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >> > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Check out Sea Serpent Design's cards and gifts? ... at Zazzle: [New Year Clock Card] New Year Clock Card ... at Redbubble: [Buy my art] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matrobnew at hotmail.com Mon Jan 29 02:13:59 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 10:13:59 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype In-Reply-To: <58eab5503ad64265a8449c2bac334818@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> References: <58eab5503ad64265a8449c2bac334818@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mick: I've had a quick look at your final link -- can you tell me where you found the stuff about pdf formatting? I'm not finding it. "Editing a Chapter" is pretty generic. And the "Tips and Tricks" section seems to all be about CSS stuff. While I don't love the widows and orphans, I could live with those if we could just get a TOC in there. But I don't know how to do it other than creating an actual chapter for the TOC, which would look totally strange in any other format. thanks, Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 1:25 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype Hi Matt, Regards your question below about pdf generation. I have to admit I know next to nothing about this. My focus has always been on the web side of things. It would be good if people could share any info they have. We are using booktype 1.6. So I did a bit of research. There is some info on some of those aspects in the docs CSS formatting http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/adding-css/ /chapter: Adding-Css / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers sourcefabric.booktype.pro Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! CSS tricks http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/some-tricks/ /chapter: Some-Tricks / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers sourcefabric.booktype.pro Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! A tip to insert Page breaks as a hack to avoid orphans and widows in pdfs http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/editing-a-chapter/ /chapter: Editing-A-Chapter / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers sourcefabric.booktype.pro Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! Thanks Mick From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of M R Sent: 27 January 2018 20:04 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Mick (et al): All great stuff on your changes and review. Thanks for addressing the table issue in the Menu chapter. And the image max-width: I didn't even know that could be adjusted. I had just ended up making all of my screenshots smaller so as to get around that distortion issue. I think the ePub book proof looks really good. The pdf one doesn't seem to handle page-breaks very gracefully (among other issues), but it doesn't appear that there's a way to handle that at the level of the content-edit platform itself. Nor does the pdf seem to auto-generate a table of contents, which is a more significant failing -- but again these must be issues common to all Floss manuals in pdf. Or maybe there are settings you can fiddle with specific to generating PDFs on the platform. In the "Recording" chapter, yes I do still see my bracketed comment/query about whether that Mac-specific config stuff was still applicable to 2.x. Certainly we should remove the comment. But it's still an open question to me whether we should remove any or all of the original Mac config info that follows too--and I think that can only be settled via experimentation with a Mac. So Rosalind or another Mac person will have to address that. I think we decided in general that we would *not* preserve in this manual any info pertaining only to 1.x versions of Audacity, at least unless it was clearly flagged as such. Mick, as to your final suggestion about moving the chapters around, I certainly see the logic insofar as the Tutorial chapters are much more 'fun'/interesting to read (as they were to re-write). However, there is probably a more compelling logic to walking through the UI systematically before diving into those tutorials, since at many points they embed the assumption that you know where to find a given menu item, or they only use the quickest shorthand (like "Go to Edit > Tracks > Split Track") rather than giving you screenshots or any more detailed guidance on the UI. Further, at least in the ePub format where the menu is readily accessible, it's easy enough for the reader to skip straight to the tutorials if they choose to. That is another reason, though, why having a TOC (and ideally a clickable one) is pretty vital for the PDF version too. Anyway, thanks again for your work on this. If Rosalind can take a look at that Mac config stuff in the Record chapter, and if you know any magic you can do with the PDF-generate settings, then I think we're good to go for this iteration. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss > on behalf of mick at flossmanuals.net > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 4:09 AM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi there, I've had a chance to review this, Great work! Just one thing I think needs to be looked at * There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does seem like this might need some simplification here Here are some thing I did. * I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. * I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. * I've increased the max-width of image display to 800px , height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. Good work. I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the file menus in the appendix. That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's just a suggestion tho. Thanks Mick On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: Hi Martin: It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten as part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users. Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only working language (at the level of something like this manual) is English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision into other languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate project. Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional functionality. Which would, again, though, be something we'd want to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Martin Kean Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Hi Maren and Matt, I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity manual need proofreading? Username: katou Email: katou at live.it Thanks, Martin ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann Sent: Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? Maren Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > Great but strange. > > What URL are you testing > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... write.flossmanuals.net Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... > > Thanks > Mick >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >> Maren Hachmann >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. >> >> Thank you very much, Mick! >> >> Maren >> >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience >>> coding HTML and CSS. >>> >>> - Rosalind >>> >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman >> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Mick >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>> >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), >>>>> and inherit the body font size. >>>>> >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >>>>> >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >>>>> to 13, too? >>>>> >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >>>>> >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent >>>>> ul { >>>>> font-size: 13px; >>>>> line-height: 140%; >>>>> margin: 1em 0; >>>>> padding: 0; >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Maren >>>>> >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to >> each table, or adding a narrow border. >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> *From:* Discuss >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman >> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> HI there, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >>>>>> >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick Chesterman >>>>>> >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer >>>>>> >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >>>>>> >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: >>>>>> @EdLabMMU >>>>>> >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >>>>> >>>>>> edlab.org.uk >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >>>>>> student experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >>>>> Thursday/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mick: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>>>> Chesterman >> >>>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >>>>>> chapter list screen. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of M R >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to >>>>>> install the >>>>> LAME >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>>>> >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>>>> - you can >>>>> unsubscribe here >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >> > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maren at goos-habermann.de Mon Jan 29 05:19:56 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:19:56 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype In-Reply-To: References: <58eab5503ad64265a8449c2bac334818@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: <319e593f-a718-6f2a-b25e-46db396b0a9a@goos-habermann.de> Here's some additional info that one of our devs has found out while trying things out: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/blob/master/beginners_guide/README.md (he's not a native English speaker) Maren Am 29.01.2018 um 11:13 schrieb M R: > Mick: > > > I've had a quick look at your final link -- can you tell me where you > found the stuff about pdf formatting?? I'm not finding it.? "Editing a > Chapter" is pretty generic.? And the "Tips and Tricks" section seems to > all be about CSS stuff. > > > While I don't love the widows and orphans, I could live with those if we > could just get a TOC in there.? But I don't know how to do it other than > creating an actual chapter for the TOC, which would look totally strange > in any other format. > > > thanks, > > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Discuss on behalf of > Mick Chesterman > *Sent:* Monday, January 29, 2018 1:25 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS > Manuals / Booktype > ? > > Hi Matt, > > ? > > Regards your question below about pdf generation. I have to admit I know > next to nothing about this. > > My focus has always been on the web side of things. > > ? > > It would be good if people could share any info they have. > > ? > > We are using booktype 1.6. So I did a bit of research. > > There is some info on some of those aspects in the docs > > ? > > CSS formatting > > http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/adding-css/ > > /chapter: Adding-Css / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers > > sourcefabric.booktype.pro > Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! > > > ? > > CSS tricks > > http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/some-tricks/ > > /chapter: Some-Tricks / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers > > sourcefabric.booktype.pro > Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! > > > ? > > A tip to insert Page breaks as a hack to avoid orphans and widows in pdfs > > http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/editing-a-chapter/ > > /chapter: Editing-A-Chapter / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers > > sourcefabric.booktype.pro > Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! > > > ? > > ? > > Thanks > > Mick > > ? > > *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On > Behalf Of *M R > *Sent:* 27 January 2018 20:04 > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > ? > > Mick (et al): > > ? > > All great stuff on your changes and review.? Thanks for addressing the > table issue in the Menu chapter.? ?And the image max-width: I didn't > even know that could be adjusted.? I had just ended up making all of my > screenshots smaller so as to get around that distortion issue.?? > > ? > > I think the ePub book proof looks really good. The pdf one doesn't seem > to handle page-breaks very gracefully (among other issues), but it > doesn't appear that there's a way to handle that at the level of the > content-edit platform itself.? Nor does the pdf seem to auto-generate a > table of contents, which is a more significant failing -- but again > these must be issues common to all Floss manuals in pdf.? Or maybe there > are settings you can fiddle with specific to generating PDFs on the > platform. > > ? > > In the "Recording" chapter, yes I do still see my bracketed > comment/query about whether that Mac-specific config stuff was still > applicable to 2.x.? ?Certainly we should remove the comment.? But it's > still an open question to me whether we should remove any or all of the > original Mac config info that follows too--and I think that can only be > settled via experimentation with a Mac.? So?Rosalind or another Mac > person will have to address that.? I think we decided in general that we > would *not* preserve in this manual any info pertaining only to 1.x > versions of Audacity, at least unless it was clearly flagged as such. > > ? > > Mick, as to your final suggestion about moving the chapters around, I > certainly see the logic insofar as the Tutorial chapters are much more > 'fun'/interesting to read (as they were to re-write).? However, there is > probably a more compelling logic to walking through the UI > systematically before diving into those tutorials, since at many points > they embed the assumption that you know where to find a given menu item, > or they only use the quickest shorthand (like "Go to Edit > Tracks > > Split Track") rather than giving you screenshots or any more detailed > guidance on the UI.? Further, at least in the ePub format where the menu > is readily accessible, it's easy enough for the reader to skip straight > to the tutorials if they choose to.? That is another reason, though, why > having a TOC (and ideally a clickable one) is pretty vital for the PDF > version too.?? > > ? > > Anyway, thanks again for your work on this.? If Rosalind can take a look > at that Mac config stuff in the Record chapter, and if you know any > magic you can do with the PDF-generate settings, then I think we're good > to go for this iteration. > > ? > > Matt > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of > mick at flossmanuals.net > > > *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 4:09 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > ? > > Hi there, > > ? > > I've had a chance to review this, Great work! > > ? > > Just one thing I think needs to be looked at > > * There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does > seem like this might need some simplification here > > Here are some thing I did. > > * I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. > * I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. > * I've increased the max-width of image display to? 800px , > height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be > fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, > > ? > > I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. > > http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub > > > http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf > > > ? > > ? > > More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. > Good work. > > I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more > task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the > file menus in the appendix. > > That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's > just a suggestion tho. > > ? > > ? > > Thanks > > Mick > > ? > > ? > > On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: > > Hi Martin: > > ? > > It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten > as part of the update to 2.x.? Mick has offered to do that this > weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as > long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since?we are trying to wrap > this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users.? > Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only > working language (at the level of something like this manual) is > English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision?into other > languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate > project.? ? Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with > Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from > comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's > always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional > functionality.? Which would, again, though,?be something we'd want > to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. > > ? > > Matt > > ? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of Martin > Kean > *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > ? > > Hi Maren and Matt, > > ? > > I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading > and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity > manual need proofreading? > > ? > > Username: katou > > Email: katou at live.it > > ? > > Thanks, Martin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of Maren > Hachmann > *Sent:* Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > ? > > Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? > > Maren > > Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > > Great but strange. > > > > What URL are you testing > > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox > > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ > > > /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... > > > write.flossmanuals.net > > Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for > trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: > Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... > > > > > > > Thanks > > Mick > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of > >> Maren Hachmann > >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 > >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >> > >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. > >> > >> Thank you very much, Mick! > >> > >> Maren > >> > >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: > >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience > >>> coding HTML and CSS. > >>> > >>> - Rosalind > >>> > >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman > >> > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi there, > >>>> > >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. > >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. > >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> Mick > >>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On > >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann > >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 > >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>> > >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: > >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default > >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the > >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), > >>>>> and inherit the body font size. > >>>>> > >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the > >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. > >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that > >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. > >>>>> > >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area > >>>>> to 13, too? > >>>>> > >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: > >>>>> > >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent > >>>>> ul { > >>>>> font-size: 13px; > >>>>> line-height: 140%; > >>>>> margin: 1em 0; > >>>>> padding: 0; > >>>>> } > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Maren > >>>>> > >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: > >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me.? Maybe best to > >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in > >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific > >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, > >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up.? In the Menu Bar chapter there > >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information.? As I did > >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the > >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and > >>>>>> no border.? This worked well enough in the original version, when > >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it > >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design.? However, Audacity 2.x's much more > >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer > >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how > >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables.? I think the solution > >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to > >> each table, or adding a narrow border. > >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation.? I don't > >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Matt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> ----- > >>>>>> *From:* Discuss > >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick > >>>>>> Chesterman > >> > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> HI there, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This sounds good. Can? anyone step forward to have a look over the > >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick Chesterman > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & > >>>>>> > >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: > >>>>>> @EdLabMMU > >>>>>> > >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... > >>>>> > >>>>>> edlab.org.uk > >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - > >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and > >>>>>> student experience. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and > >>>>> Thursday/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On > >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R > >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their > >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so > >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I > >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a > >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, > >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not > >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here.? But I just wanted to make sure > >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task.? I assume we all have > >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break > >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> thanks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Matt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> ----- > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick > >>>>>> Chesterman > >> > >>>>> > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> To exit? chapter titles you just double click into the title on the > >>>>>> chapter list screen. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > on behalf of M R > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, > >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that.? No big deal though, as > >>>>>> the current titles will serve.? I did drag one entire chapter out > >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was > >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to > >>>>>> install the > >>>>> LAME > >>>>>> MP3 codec separately.? Just one of many ways that Audacity has > >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer > >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> - you can > >>>>> unsubscribe here > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer > >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>> > >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > >>>> you can unsubscribe here > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Discuss mailing list > >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > >>> you can unsubscribe here > >>> > >> > > > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > - you can unsubscribe here > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > - you can unsubscribe here > > ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk Mon Jan 29 12:13:25 2018 From: M.Chesterman at mmu.ac.uk (Mick Chesterman) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 20:13:25 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype In-Reply-To: <319e593f-a718-6f2a-b25e-46db396b0a9a@goos-habermann.de> References: <58eab5503ad64265a8449c2bac334818@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , <319e593f-a718-6f2a-b25e-46db396b0a9a@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: <1517256805233.87055@mmu.ac.uk> Thanks Maren, I've tried those settings with the Audacity manual and it looks better but still needs some tweaks. http://objavi.booktype.pro/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.29-21.10.44.pdf ________________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann Sent: 29 January 2018 13:19 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype Here's some additional info that one of our devs has found out while trying things out: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/blob/master/beginners_guide/README.md (he's not a native English speaker) Maren Am 29.01.2018 um 11:13 schrieb M R: > Mick: > > > I've had a quick look at your final link -- can you tell me where you > found the stuff about pdf formatting? I'm not finding it. "Editing a > Chapter" is pretty generic. And the "Tips and Tricks" section seems to > all be about CSS stuff. > > > While I don't love the widows and orphans, I could live with those if we > could just get a TOC in there. But I don't know how to do it other than > creating an actual chapter for the TOC, which would look totally strange > in any other format. > > > thanks, > > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Discuss on behalf of > Mick Chesterman > *Sent:* Monday, January 29, 2018 1:25 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS > Manuals / Booktype > > > Hi Matt, > > > > Regards your question below about pdf generation. I have to admit I know > next to nothing about this. > > My focus has always been on the web side of things. > > > > It would be good if people could share any info they have. > > > > We are using booktype 1.6. So I did a bit of research. > > There is some info on some of those aspects in the docs > > > > CSS formatting > > http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/adding-css/ > > /chapter: Adding-Css / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers > > sourcefabric.booktype.pro > Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! > > > > > CSS tricks > > http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/some-tricks/ > > /chapter: Some-Tricks / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers > > sourcefabric.booktype.pro > Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! > > > > > A tip to insert Page breaks as a hack to avoid orphans and widows in pdfs > > http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/editing-a-chapter/ > > /chapter: Editing-A-Chapter / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers > > sourcefabric.booktype.pro > Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! > > > > > > > Thanks > > Mick > > > > *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On > Behalf Of *M R > *Sent:* 27 January 2018 20:04 > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Mick (et al): > > > > All great stuff on your changes and review. Thanks for addressing the > table issue in the Menu chapter. And the image max-width: I didn't > even know that could be adjusted. I had just ended up making all of my > screenshots smaller so as to get around that distortion issue. > > > > I think the ePub book proof looks really good. The pdf one doesn't seem > to handle page-breaks very gracefully (among other issues), but it > doesn't appear that there's a way to handle that at the level of the > content-edit platform itself. Nor does the pdf seem to auto-generate a > table of contents, which is a more significant failing -- but again > these must be issues common to all Floss manuals in pdf. Or maybe there > are settings you can fiddle with specific to generating PDFs on the > platform. > > > > In the "Recording" chapter, yes I do still see my bracketed > comment/query about whether that Mac-specific config stuff was still > applicable to 2.x. Certainly we should remove the comment. But it's > still an open question to me whether we should remove any or all of the > original Mac config info that follows too--and I think that can only be > settled via experimentation with a Mac. So Rosalind or another Mac > person will have to address that. I think we decided in general that we > would *not* preserve in this manual any info pertaining only to 1.x > versions of Audacity, at least unless it was clearly flagged as such. > > > > Mick, as to your final suggestion about moving the chapters around, I > certainly see the logic insofar as the Tutorial chapters are much more > 'fun'/interesting to read (as they were to re-write). However, there is > probably a more compelling logic to walking through the UI > systematically before diving into those tutorials, since at many points > they embed the assumption that you know where to find a given menu item, > or they only use the quickest shorthand (like "Go to Edit > Tracks > > Split Track") rather than giving you screenshots or any more detailed > guidance on the UI. Further, at least in the ePub format where the menu > is readily accessible, it's easy enough for the reader to skip straight > to the tutorials if they choose to. That is another reason, though, why > having a TOC (and ideally a clickable one) is pretty vital for the PDF > version too. > > > > Anyway, thanks again for your work on this. If Rosalind can take a look > at that Mac config stuff in the Record chapter, and if you know any > magic you can do with the PDF-generate settings, then I think we're good > to go for this iteration. > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of > mick at flossmanuals.net > > > *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 4:09 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Hi there, > > > > I've had a chance to review this, Great work! > > > > Just one thing I think needs to be looked at > > * There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does > seem like this might need some simplification here > > Here are some thing I did. > > * I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. > * I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. > * I've increased the max-width of image display to 800px , > height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be > fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, > > > > I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. > > http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub > > > http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf > > > > > > > More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. > Good work. > > I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more > task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the > file menus in the appendix. > > That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's > just a suggestion tho. > > > > > > Thanks > > Mick > > > > > > On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: > > Hi Martin: > > > > It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten > as part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this > weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as > long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap > this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users. > Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only > working language (at the level of something like this manual) is > English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision into other > languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate > project. Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with > Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from > comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's > always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional > functionality. Which would, again, though, be something we'd want > to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. > > > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of Martin > Kean > *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Hi Maren and Matt, > > > > I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading > and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity > manual need proofreading? > > > > Username: katou > > Email: katou at live.it > > > > Thanks, Martin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of Maren > Hachmann > *Sent:* Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? > > Maren > > Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > > Great but strange. > > > > What URL are you testing > > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox > > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ > > > /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... > > > write.flossmanuals.net > > Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for > trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: > Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... > > > > > > > Thanks > > Mick > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of > >> Maren Hachmann > >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 > >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >> > >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. > >> > >> Thank you very much, Mick! > >> > >> Maren > >> > >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: > >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience > >>> coding HTML and CSS. > >>> > >>> - Rosalind > >>> > >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman > >> > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi there, > >>>> > >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. > >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. > >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> Mick > >>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On > >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann > >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 > >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>> > >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: > >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default > >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the > >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), > >>>>> and inherit the body font size. > >>>>> > >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the > >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. > >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that > >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. > >>>>> > >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area > >>>>> to 13, too? > >>>>> > >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: > >>>>> > >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent > >>>>> ul { > >>>>> font-size: 13px; > >>>>> line-height: 140%; > >>>>> margin: 1em 0; > >>>>> padding: 0; > >>>>> } > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Maren > >>>>> > >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: > >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to > >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in > >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific > >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, > >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there > >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did > >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the > >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and > >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when > >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it > >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more > >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer > >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how > >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution > >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to > >> each table, or adding a narrow border. > >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't > >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Matt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> ----- > >>>>>> *From:* Discuss > >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick > >>>>>> Chesterman > >> > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> HI there, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the > >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick Chesterman > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & > >>>>>> > >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: > >>>>>> @EdLabMMU > >>>>>> > >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... > >>>>> > >>>>>> edlab.org.uk > >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - > >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and > >>>>>> student experience. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and > >>>>> Thursday/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On > >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R > >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their > >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so > >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I > >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a > >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, > >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not > >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure > >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have > >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break > >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> thanks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Matt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> ----- > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick > >>>>>> Chesterman > >> > >>>>> > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the > >>>>>> chapter list screen. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > on behalf of M R > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, > >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as > >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out > >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was > >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to > >>>>>> install the > >>>>> LAME > >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has > >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer > >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> - you can > >>>>> unsubscribe here > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer > >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>> > >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > >>>> you can unsubscribe here > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Discuss mailing list > >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > >>> you can unsubscribe here > >>> > >> > > > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > - you can unsubscribe here > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > - you can unsubscribe here > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > From Martin.Kean at op.ac.nz Mon Jan 29 12:49:11 2018 From: Martin.Kean at op.ac.nz (Martin Kean) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 20:49:11 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype In-Reply-To: <1517256805233.87055@mmu.ac.uk> References: <58eab5503ad64265a8449c2bac334818@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> , <319e593f-a718-6f2a-b25e-46db396b0a9a@goos-habermann.de>, <1517256805233.87055@mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Matt, Maren and Mick, I'm keen to help with the CSS on any manual. Is there a list of CSS requests? I have some initial suggestions: 1. More space in the gutter 2. Remove page numbers from title page and following page 3. Centre the title on the title page Cheers, Martin ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Mick Chesterman Sent: Tuesday, 30 January 2018 9:13:25 a.m. To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype Thanks Maren, I've tried those settings with the Audacity manual and it looks better but still needs some tweaks. http://objavi.booktype.pro/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.29-21.10.44.pdf ________________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann Sent: 29 January 2018 13:19 To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype Here's some additional info that one of our devs has found out while trying things out: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/blob/master/beginners_guide/README.md (he's not a native English speaker) Maren Am 29.01.2018 um 11:13 schrieb M R: > Mick: > > > I've had a quick look at your final link -- can you tell me where you > found the stuff about pdf formatting? I'm not finding it. "Editing a > Chapter" is pretty generic. And the "Tips and Tricks" section seems to > all be about CSS stuff. > > > While I don't love the widows and orphans, I could live with those if we > could just get a TOC in there. But I don't know how to do it other than > creating an actual chapter for the TOC, which would look totally strange > in any other format. > > > thanks, > > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Discuss on behalf of > Mick Chesterman > *Sent:* Monday, January 29, 2018 1:25 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS > Manuals / Booktype > > > Hi Matt, > > > > Regards your question below about pdf generation. I have to admit I know > next to nothing about this. > > My focus has always been on the web side of things. > > > > It would be good if people could share any info they have. > > > > We are using booktype 1.6. So I did a bit of research. > > There is some info on some of those aspects in the docs > > > > CSS formatting > > http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/adding-css/ > > /chapter: Adding-Css / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers > > sourcefabric.booktype.pro > Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! > > > > > CSS tricks > > http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/some-tricks/ > > /chapter: Some-Tricks / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers > > sourcefabric.booktype.pro > Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! > > > > > A tip to insert Page breaks as a hack to avoid orphans and widows in pdfs > > http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/editing-a-chapter/ > > /chapter: Editing-A-Chapter / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers > > sourcefabric.booktype.pro > Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! > > > > > > > Thanks > > Mick > > > > *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On > Behalf Of *M R > *Sent:* 27 January 2018 20:04 > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Mick (et al): > > > > All great stuff on your changes and review. Thanks for addressing the > table issue in the Menu chapter. And the image max-width: I didn't > even know that could be adjusted. I had just ended up making all of my > screenshots smaller so as to get around that distortion issue. > > > > I think the ePub book proof looks really good. The pdf one doesn't seem > to handle page-breaks very gracefully (among other issues), but it > doesn't appear that there's a way to handle that at the level of the > content-edit platform itself. Nor does the pdf seem to auto-generate a > table of contents, which is a more significant failing -- but again > these must be issues common to all Floss manuals in pdf. Or maybe there > are settings you can fiddle with specific to generating PDFs on the > platform. > > > > In the "Recording" chapter, yes I do still see my bracketed > comment/query about whether that Mac-specific config stuff was still > applicable to 2.x. Certainly we should remove the comment. But it's > still an open question to me whether we should remove any or all of the > original Mac config info that follows too--and I think that can only be > settled via experimentation with a Mac. So Rosalind or another Mac > person will have to address that. I think we decided in general that we > would *not* preserve in this manual any info pertaining only to 1.x > versions of Audacity, at least unless it was clearly flagged as such. > > > > Mick, as to your final suggestion about moving the chapters around, I > certainly see the logic insofar as the Tutorial chapters are much more > 'fun'/interesting to read (as they were to re-write). However, there is > probably a more compelling logic to walking through the UI > systematically before diving into those tutorials, since at many points > they embed the assumption that you know where to find a given menu item, > or they only use the quickest shorthand (like "Go to Edit > Tracks > > Split Track") rather than giving you screenshots or any more detailed > guidance on the UI. Further, at least in the ePub format where the menu > is readily accessible, it's easy enough for the reader to skip straight > to the tutorials if they choose to. That is another reason, though, why > having a TOC (and ideally a clickable one) is pretty vital for the PDF > version too. > > > > Anyway, thanks again for your work on this. If Rosalind can take a look > at that Mac config stuff in the Record chapter, and if you know any > magic you can do with the PDF-generate settings, then I think we're good > to go for this iteration. > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of > mick at flossmanuals.net > > > *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 4:09 AM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Hi there, > > > > I've had a chance to review this, Great work! > > > > Just one thing I think needs to be looked at > > * There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does > seem like this might need some simplification here > > Here are some thing I did. > > * I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. > * I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. > * I've increased the max-width of image display to 800px , > height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be > fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, > > > > I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. > > http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub > > > http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf > > > > > > > More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. > Good work. > > I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more > task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the > file menus in the appendix. > > That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's > just a suggestion tho. > > > > > > Thanks > > Mick > > > > > > On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: > > Hi Martin: > > > > It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten > as part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this > weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as > long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap > this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users. > Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only > working language (at the level of something like this manual) is > English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision into other > languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate > project. Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with > Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from > comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's > always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional > functionality. Which would, again, though, be something we'd want > to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. > > > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of Martin > Kean > *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Hi Maren and Matt, > > > > I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading > and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity > manual need proofreading? > > > > Username: katou > > Email: katou at live.it > > > > Thanks, Martin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Discuss > on behalf of Maren > Hachmann > *Sent:* Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. > *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > > > > Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? > > Maren > > Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > > Great but strange. > > > > What URL are you testing > > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox > > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ > > > /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... > > > write.flossmanuals.net > > Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for > trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: > Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... > > > > > > > Thanks > > Mick > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of > >> Maren Hachmann > >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 > >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >> > >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. > >> > >> Thank you very much, Mick! > >> > >> Maren > >> > >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: > >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience > >>> coding HTML and CSS. > >>> > >>> - Rosalind > >>> > >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman > >> > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi there, > >>>> > >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. > >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. > >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> Mick > >>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On > >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann > >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 > >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>> > >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: > >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default > >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the > >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), > >>>>> and inherit the body font size. > >>>>> > >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the > >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. > >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that > >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. > >>>>> > >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area > >>>>> to 13, too? > >>>>> > >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: > >>>>> > >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent > >>>>> ul { > >>>>> font-size: 13px; > >>>>> line-height: 140%; > >>>>> margin: 1em 0; > >>>>> padding: 0; > >>>>> } > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Maren > >>>>> > >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: > >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to > >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in > >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific > >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, > >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there > >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did > >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the > >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and > >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when > >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it > >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more > >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer > >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how > >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution > >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to > >> each table, or adding a narrow border. > >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't > >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Matt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> ----- > >>>>>> *From:* Discuss > >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick > >>>>>> Chesterman > >> > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> HI there, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the > >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick Chesterman > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & > >>>>>> > >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: > >>>>>> @EdLabMMU > >>>>>> > >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... > >>>>> > >>>>>> edlab.org.uk > >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - > >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and > >>>>>> student experience. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and > >>>>> Thursday/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On > >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R > >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mick: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their > >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so > >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I > >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a > >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, > >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not > >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure > >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have > >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break > >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> thanks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Matt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> ----- > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick > >>>>>> Chesterman > >> > >>>>> > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the > >>>>>> chapter list screen. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *From:*Discuss > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > on behalf of M R > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 > >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, > >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as > >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out > >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was > >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to > >>>>>> install the > >>>>> LAME > >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has > >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer > >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > >>>>>> - you can > >>>>> unsubscribe here > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should > >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer > >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>>> > >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > >>>> you can unsubscribe here > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Discuss mailing list > >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - > >>> you can unsubscribe here > >>> > >> > > > > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > - you can unsubscribe here > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net > - you can unsubscribe here > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maren at goos-habermann.de Mon Jan 29 14:40:34 2018 From: maren at goos-habermann.de (Maren Hachmann) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:40:34 +0100 Subject: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype In-Reply-To: <1517256805233.87055@mmu.ac.uk> References: <58eab5503ad64265a8449c2bac334818@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <319e593f-a718-6f2a-b25e-46db396b0a9a@goos-habermann.de> <1517256805233.87055@mmu.ac.uk> Message-ID: <9395e7a3-97cd-3e64-f218-d242b0b3cdbd@goos-habermann.de> Yes, those settings are specific to the Inkscape manual (color scheme, fonts), and Jabier needed to leave and do other things at the time, so it's still unfinished, unfortunately. There's a lot on the wishlist[1] for the Inkscape beginners' guide, but layouting/styling appears to be rather tedious (and partly impossible). And the booktype people only ever answer you, when we talk together. Perhaps my emails didn't get through to them? It happened twice... Maren [1] Start chapter with heading, then have a box with a larger tool icon, with keyboard shortcuts and short description, if it describes a tool. Have a specific class for inline tool icons. Have info boxes. Have a style for keyboard shortcuts that makes them look like actual keys. Don't produce so many empty pages. Have a proper caption for images. It also seems that links don't carry over into the pdf (for print, I guess that's alright, lol... but couldn't it automagically create footnotes from them, in that case?), etc. Am 29.01.2018 um 21:13 schrieb Mick Chesterman: > Thanks Maren, > > I've tried those settings with the Audacity manual and it looks better but still needs some tweaks. > http://objavi.booktype.pro/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.29-21.10.44.pdf > ________________________________________ > From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann > Sent: 29 January 2018 13:19 > To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype > > Here's some additional info that one of our devs has found out while > trying things out: > https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/blob/master/beginners_guide/README.md > (he's not a native English speaker) > > Maren > > Am 29.01.2018 um 11:13 schrieb M R: >> Mick: >> >> >> I've had a quick look at your final link -- can you tell me where you >> found the stuff about pdf formatting? I'm not finding it. "Editing a >> Chapter" is pretty generic. And the "Tips and Tricks" section seems to >> all be about CSS stuff. >> >> >> While I don't love the widows and orphans, I could live with those if we >> could just get a TOC in there. But I don't know how to do it other than >> creating an actual chapter for the TOC, which would look totally strange >> in any other format. >> >> >> thanks, >> >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* Discuss on behalf of >> Mick Chesterman >> *Sent:* Monday, January 29, 2018 1:25 AM >> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS >> Manuals / Booktype >> >> >> Hi Matt, >> >> >> >> Regards your question below about pdf generation. I have to admit I know >> next to nothing about this. >> >> My focus has always been on the web side of things. >> >> >> >> It would be good if people could share any info they have. >> >> >> >> We are using booktype 1.6. So I did a bit of research. >> >> There is some info on some of those aspects in the docs >> >> >> >> CSS formatting >> >> http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/adding-css/ >> >> /chapter: Adding-Css / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers >> >> sourcefabric.booktype.pro >> Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! >> >> >> >> >> CSS tricks >> >> http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/some-tricks/ >> >> /chapter: Some-Tricks / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers >> >> sourcefabric.booktype.pro >> Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! >> >> >> >> >> A tip to insert Page breaks as a hack to avoid orphans and widows in pdfs >> >> http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/editing-a-chapter/ >> >> /chapter: Editing-A-Chapter / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers >> >> sourcefabric.booktype.pro >> Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Mick >> >> >> >> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >> Behalf Of *M R >> *Sent:* 27 January 2018 20:04 >> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> >> >> Mick (et al): >> >> >> >> All great stuff on your changes and review. Thanks for addressing the >> table issue in the Menu chapter. And the image max-width: I didn't >> even know that could be adjusted. I had just ended up making all of my >> screenshots smaller so as to get around that distortion issue. >> >> >> >> I think the ePub book proof looks really good. The pdf one doesn't seem >> to handle page-breaks very gracefully (among other issues), but it >> doesn't appear that there's a way to handle that at the level of the >> content-edit platform itself. Nor does the pdf seem to auto-generate a >> table of contents, which is a more significant failing -- but again >> these must be issues common to all Floss manuals in pdf. Or maybe there >> are settings you can fiddle with specific to generating PDFs on the >> platform. >> >> >> >> In the "Recording" chapter, yes I do still see my bracketed >> comment/query about whether that Mac-specific config stuff was still >> applicable to 2.x. Certainly we should remove the comment. But it's >> still an open question to me whether we should remove any or all of the >> original Mac config info that follows too--and I think that can only be >> settled via experimentation with a Mac. So Rosalind or another Mac >> person will have to address that. I think we decided in general that we >> would *not* preserve in this manual any info pertaining only to 1.x >> versions of Audacity, at least unless it was clearly flagged as such. >> >> >> >> Mick, as to your final suggestion about moving the chapters around, I >> certainly see the logic insofar as the Tutorial chapters are much more >> 'fun'/interesting to read (as they were to re-write). However, there is >> probably a more compelling logic to walking through the UI >> systematically before diving into those tutorials, since at many points >> they embed the assumption that you know where to find a given menu item, >> or they only use the quickest shorthand (like "Go to Edit > Tracks > >> Split Track") rather than giving you screenshots or any more detailed >> guidance on the UI. Further, at least in the ePub format where the menu >> is readily accessible, it's easy enough for the reader to skip straight >> to the tutorials if they choose to. That is another reason, though, why >> having a TOC (and ideally a clickable one) is pretty vital for the PDF >> version too. >> >> >> >> Anyway, thanks again for your work on this. If Rosalind can take a look >> at that Mac config stuff in the Record chapter, and if you know any >> magic you can do with the PDF-generate settings, then I think we're good >> to go for this iteration. >> >> >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:*Discuss > > on behalf of >> mick at flossmanuals.net >> > >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 4:09 AM >> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> >> >> Hi there, >> >> >> >> I've had a chance to review this, Great work! >> >> >> >> Just one thing I think needs to be looked at >> >> * There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does >> seem like this might need some simplification here >> >> Here are some thing I did. >> >> * I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. >> * I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. >> * I've increased the max-width of image display to 800px , >> height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be >> fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, >> >> >> >> I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. >> >> http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub >> >> >> http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf >> >> >> >> >> >> >> More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. >> Good work. >> >> I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more >> task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the >> file menus in the appendix. >> >> That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's >> just a suggestion tho. >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Mick >> >> >> >> >> >> On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: >> >> Hi Martin: >> >> >> >> It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten >> as part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this >> weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as >> long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap >> this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users. >> Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only >> working language (at the level of something like this manual) is >> English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision into other >> languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate >> project. Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with >> Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from >> comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's >> always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional >> functionality. Which would, again, though, be something we'd want >> to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. >> >> >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:*Discuss >> on behalf of Martin >> Kean >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM >> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> >> >> Hi Maren and Matt, >> >> >> >> I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading >> and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity >> manual need proofreading? >> >> >> >> Username: katou >> >> Email: katou at live.it >> >> >> >> Thanks, Martin >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:*Discuss >> on behalf of Maren >> Hachmann >> *Sent:* Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. >> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> >> >> Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? >> >> Maren >> >> Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: >> > Great but strange. >> > >> > What URL are you testing >> > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox >> > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ >> >> >> /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... >> >> >> write.flossmanuals.net >> >> Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for >> trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: >> Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... >> >> >> >> > >> > Thanks >> > Mick >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >> >> Maren Hachmann >> >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 >> >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >> >> >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. >> >> >> >> Thank you very much, Mick! >> >> >> >> Maren >> >> >> >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >> >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience >> >>> coding HTML and CSS. >> >>> >> >>> - Rosalind >> >>> >> >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman >> >> >> >>>> > wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi there, >> >>>> >> >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >> >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >> >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks >> >>>> Mick >> >>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On >> >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann >> >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >> >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >> >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default >> >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the >> >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), >> >>>>> and inherit the body font size. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >> >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >> >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >> >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >> >>>>> to 13, too? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent >> >>>>> ul { >> >>>>> font-size: 13px; >> >>>>> line-height: 140%; >> >>>>> margin: 1em 0; >> >>>>> padding: 0; >> >>>>> } >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>> Maren >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >> >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to >> >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in >> >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific >> >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, >> >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there >> >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did >> >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the >> >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and >> >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when >> >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it >> >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more >> >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer >> >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how >> >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution >> >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to >> >> each table, or adding a narrow border. >> >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >> >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Matt >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>>> ----- >> >>>>>> *From:* Discuss > >> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >> >>>>>> Chesterman >> >> > >> >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> HI there, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >> >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Thanks >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mick >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mick Chesterman >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: >> >>>>>> @EdLabMMU >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> edlab.org.uk >> >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >> >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >> >>>>>> student experience. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >> >>>>> Thursday/ >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >> >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R >> >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mick: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their >> >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so >> >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I >> >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a >> >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, >> >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not >> >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure >> >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have >> >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break >> >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> thanks, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Matt >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>>>> ----- >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss > >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >> >>>>>> Chesterman >> >> >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >> >>>>>> chapter list screen. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss > >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > on behalf of M R >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, >> >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as >> >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out >> >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was >> >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to >> >>>>>> install the >> >>>>> LAME >> >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has >> >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >> >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >> >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >> >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >> >>>>>> - you can >> >>>>> unsubscribe here >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >> >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >> >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Discuss mailing list >> >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>>> >> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >> >>>> you can unsubscribe here >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Discuss mailing list >> >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >> >>> you can unsubscribe here >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Discuss mailing list >> > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >> - you can unsubscribe here >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Discuss mailing list >> >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >> - you can unsubscribe here >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mick at flossmanuals.net Tue Jan 30 00:44:04 2018 From: mick at flossmanuals.net (mick at flossmanuals.net) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:44:04 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype In-Reply-To: <9395e7a3-97cd-3e64-f218-d242b0b3cdbd@goos-habermann.de> References: <58eab5503ad64265a8449c2bac334818@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <319e593f-a718-6f2a-b25e-46db396b0a9a@goos-habermann.de> <1517256805233.87055@mmu.ac.uk> <9395e7a3-97cd-3e64-f218-d242b0b3cdbd@goos-habermann.de> Message-ID: <3210e0b2-42a9-ceb3-e828-fe1b5e3d99a1@flossmanuals.net> Hi there Maren, Let's get a wish list together and then see what we can solve as a community and then as a collective come up with a check list to see what can be solved. I was hoping Martin might be up for helping and he is so that's very cool! Source fabric are very generously sponsoring FLOSS Manual's book type 1.6 installation and their focus is on Booktype 2.0 at the moment. So I guess the support for 1.6 will be limited but I'm sure we can work around that till we upgrade. Thanks Mick On 29/01/18 22:40, Maren Hachmann wrote: > Yes, those settings are specific to the Inkscape manual (color scheme, > fonts), and Jabier needed to leave and do other things at the time, so > it's still unfinished, unfortunately. > > There's a lot on the wishlist[1] for the Inkscape beginners' guide, but > layouting/styling appears to be rather tedious (and partly impossible). > And the booktype people only ever answer you, when we talk together. > Perhaps my emails didn't get through to them? It happened twice... > > Maren > > [1] Start chapter with heading, then have a box with a larger tool icon, > with keyboard shortcuts and short description, if it describes a tool. > Have a specific class for inline tool icons. Have info boxes. Have a > style for keyboard shortcuts that makes them look like actual keys. > Don't produce so many empty pages. Have a proper caption for images. It > also seems that links don't carry over into the pdf (for print, I guess > that's alright, lol... but couldn't it automagically create footnotes > from them, in that case?), etc. > > > Am 29.01.2018 um 21:13 schrieb Mick Chesterman: >> Thanks Maren, >> >> I've tried those settings with the Audacity manual and it looks better but still needs some tweaks. >> http://objavi.booktype.pro/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.29-21.10.44.pdf >> ________________________________________ >> From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann >> Sent: 29 January 2018 13:19 >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype >> >> Here's some additional info that one of our devs has found out while >> trying things out: >> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/blob/master/beginners_guide/README.md >> (he's not a native English speaker) >> >> Maren >> >> Am 29.01.2018 um 11:13 schrieb M R: >>> Mick: >>> >>> >>> I've had a quick look at your final link -- can you tell me where you >>> found the stuff about pdf formatting? I'm not finding it. "Editing a >>> Chapter" is pretty generic. And the "Tips and Tricks" section seems to >>> all be about CSS stuff. >>> >>> >>> While I don't love the widows and orphans, I could live with those if we >>> could just get a TOC in there. But I don't know how to do it other than >>> creating an actual chapter for the TOC, which would look totally strange >>> in any other format. >>> >>> >>> thanks, >>> >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* Discuss on behalf of >>> Mick Chesterman >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 29, 2018 1:25 AM >>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS >>> Manuals / Booktype >>> >>> >>> Hi Matt, >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards your question below about pdf generation. I have to admit I know >>> next to nothing about this. >>> >>> My focus has always been on the web side of things. >>> >>> >>> >>> It would be good if people could share any info they have. >>> >>> >>> >>> We are using booktype 1.6. So I did a bit of research. >>> >>> There is some info on some of those aspects in the docs >>> >>> >>> >>> CSS formatting >>> >>> http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/adding-css/ >>> >>> /chapter: Adding-Css / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers >>> >>> sourcefabric.booktype.pro >>> Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> CSS tricks >>> >>> http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/some-tricks/ >>> >>> /chapter: Some-Tricks / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers >>> >>> sourcefabric.booktype.pro >>> Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> A tip to insert Page breaks as a hack to avoid orphans and widows in pdfs >>> >>> http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/editing-a-chapter/ >>> >>> /chapter: Editing-A-Chapter / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers >>> >>> sourcefabric.booktype.pro >>> Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Mick >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>> Behalf Of *M R >>> *Sent:* 27 January 2018 20:04 >>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>> >>> >>> Mick (et al): >>> >>> >>> >>> All great stuff on your changes and review. Thanks for addressing the >>> table issue in the Menu chapter. And the image max-width: I didn't >>> even know that could be adjusted. I had just ended up making all of my >>> screenshots smaller so as to get around that distortion issue. >>> >>> >>> >>> I think the ePub book proof looks really good. The pdf one doesn't seem >>> to handle page-breaks very gracefully (among other issues), but it >>> doesn't appear that there's a way to handle that at the level of the >>> content-edit platform itself. Nor does the pdf seem to auto-generate a >>> table of contents, which is a more significant failing -- but again >>> these must be issues common to all Floss manuals in pdf. Or maybe there >>> are settings you can fiddle with specific to generating PDFs on the >>> platform. >>> >>> >>> >>> In the "Recording" chapter, yes I do still see my bracketed >>> comment/query about whether that Mac-specific config stuff was still >>> applicable to 2.x. Certainly we should remove the comment. But it's >>> still an open question to me whether we should remove any or all of the >>> original Mac config info that follows too--and I think that can only be >>> settled via experimentation with a Mac. So Rosalind or another Mac >>> person will have to address that. I think we decided in general that we >>> would *not* preserve in this manual any info pertaining only to 1.x >>> versions of Audacity, at least unless it was clearly flagged as such. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mick, as to your final suggestion about moving the chapters around, I >>> certainly see the logic insofar as the Tutorial chapters are much more >>> 'fun'/interesting to read (as they were to re-write). However, there is >>> probably a more compelling logic to walking through the UI >>> systematically before diving into those tutorials, since at many points >>> they embed the assumption that you know where to find a given menu item, >>> or they only use the quickest shorthand (like "Go to Edit > Tracks > >>> Split Track") rather than giving you screenshots or any more detailed >>> guidance on the UI. Further, at least in the ePub format where the menu >>> is readily accessible, it's easy enough for the reader to skip straight >>> to the tutorials if they choose to. That is another reason, though, why >>> having a TOC (and ideally a clickable one) is pretty vital for the PDF >>> version too. >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyway, thanks again for your work on this. If Rosalind can take a look >>> at that Mac config stuff in the Record chapter, and if you know any >>> magic you can do with the PDF-generate settings, then I think we're good >>> to go for this iteration. >>> >>> >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:*Discuss >> > on behalf of >>> mick at flossmanuals.net >>> > >>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 4:09 AM >>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi there, >>> >>> >>> >>> I've had a chance to review this, Great work! >>> >>> >>> >>> Just one thing I think needs to be looked at >>> >>> * There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does >>> seem like this might need some simplification here >>> >>> Here are some thing I did. >>> >>> * I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. >>> * I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. >>> * I've increased the max-width of image display to 800px , >>> height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be >>> fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, >>> >>> >>> >>> I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. >>> >>> http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub >>> >>> >>> http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. >>> Good work. >>> >>> I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more >>> task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the >>> file menus in the appendix. >>> >>> That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's >>> just a suggestion tho. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Mick >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: >>> >>> Hi Martin: >>> >>> >>> >>> It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten >>> as part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this >>> weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as >>> long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap >>> this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users. >>> Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only >>> working language (at the level of something like this manual) is >>> English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision into other >>> languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate >>> project. Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with >>> Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from >>> comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's >>> always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional >>> functionality. Which would, again, though, be something we'd want >>> to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. >>> >>> >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:*Discuss >>> on behalf of Martin >>> Kean >>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM >>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Maren and Matt, >>> >>> >>> >>> I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading >>> and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity >>> manual need proofreading? >>> >>> >>> >>> Username: katou >>> >>> Email: katou at live.it >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, Martin >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:*Discuss >>> on behalf of Maren >>> Hachmann >>> *Sent:* Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. >>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? >>> >>> Maren >>> >>> Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: >>> > Great but strange. >>> > >>> > What URL are you testing >>> > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox >>> > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ >>> >>> >>> /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... >>> >>> >>> write.flossmanuals.net >>> >>> Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for >>> trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: >>> Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > Mick >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >>> >> Maren Hachmann >>> >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 >>> >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >> >>> >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. >>> >> >>> >> Thank you very much, Mick! >>> >> >>> >> Maren >>> >> >>> >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >>> >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience >>> >>> coding HTML and CSS. >>> >>> >>> >>> - Rosalind >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman >>> >> >>> >>>> > wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Hi there, >>> >>>> >>> >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >>> >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >>> >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Thanks >>> >>>> Mick >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On >>> >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann >>> >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >>> >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >>> >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default >>> >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the >>> >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), >>> >>>>> and inherit the body font size. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >>> >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >>> >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >>> >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >>> >>>>> to 13, too? >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent >>> >>>>> ul { >>> >>>>> font-size: 13px; >>> >>>>> line-height: 140%; >>> >>>>> margin: 1em 0; >>> >>>>> padding: 0; >>> >>>>> } >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Thanks, >>> >>>>> Maren >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >>> >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to >>> >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in >>> >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific >>> >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, >>> >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there >>> >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did >>> >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the >>> >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and >>> >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when >>> >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it >>> >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more >>> >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer >>> >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how >>> >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution >>> >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to >>> >> each table, or adding a narrow border. >>> >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >>> >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Matt >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>>>> ----- >>> >>>>>> *From:* Discuss >> >>> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>> >>>>>> Chesterman >>> >> > >>> >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >>> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> HI there, >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >>> >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Thanks >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Mick >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Mick Chesterman >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: >>> >>>>>> @EdLabMMU >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> edlab.org.uk >>> >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >>> >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >>> >>>>>> student experience. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >>> >>>>> Thursday/ >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>> >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R >>> >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >>> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Mick: >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their >>> >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so >>> >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I >>> >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a >>> >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, >>> >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not >>> >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure >>> >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have >>> >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break >>> >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> thanks, >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Matt >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>>>> ----- >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>> >>>>>> Chesterman >>> >> >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >>> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >>> >>>>>> chapter list screen. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> > on behalf of M R >>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >>> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, >>> >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as >>> >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out >>> >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was >>> >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to >>> >>>>>> install the >>> >>>>> LAME >>> >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has >>> >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>> >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>> >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>> >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>> >>>>>> - you can >>> >>>>> unsubscribe here >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>> >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>> >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> Discuss mailing list >>> >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>>> >>> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>> >>>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Discuss mailing list >>> >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>> >>> you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> >>> >> >>> > >>> > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Discuss mailing list >>> > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>> - you can unsubscribe here >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Discuss mailing list >>> >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>> - you can unsubscribe here >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mick at flossmanuals.net Tue Jan 30 00:51:34 2018 From: mick at flossmanuals.net (mick at flossmanuals.net) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 08:51:34 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype In-Reply-To: <3210e0b2-42a9-ceb3-e828-fe1b5e3d99a1@flossmanuals.net> References: <58eab5503ad64265a8449c2bac334818@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <319e593f-a718-6f2a-b25e-46db396b0a9a@goos-habermann.de> <1517256805233.87055@mmu.ac.uk> <9395e7a3-97cd-3e64-f218-d242b0b3cdbd@goos-habermann.de> <3210e0b2-42a9-ceb3-e828-fe1b5e3d99a1@flossmanuals.net> Message-ID: <777a6e89-10fa-5a4e-4106-4b0902d4b9e6@flossmanuals.net> Shall we put these issues here. https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues Let me know if you can't add them for some reason. Mick On 30/01/18 08:44, mick at flossmanuals.net wrote: > > Hi there Maren, > > Let's get a wish list together and then see what we can solve as a > community and then as a collective come up with a check list to see > what can be solved. > > I was hoping Martin might be up for helping and he is so that's very cool! > > Source fabric are very generously sponsoring FLOSS Manual's book type > 1.6 installation and their focus is on Booktype 2.0 at the moment. So > I guess the support for 1.6 will be limited but I'm sure we can work > around that till we upgrade. > > Thanks > Mick > > > On 29/01/18 22:40, Maren Hachmann wrote: >> Yes, those settings are specific to the Inkscape manual (color scheme, >> fonts), and Jabier needed to leave and do other things at the time, so >> it's still unfinished, unfortunately. >> >> There's a lot on the wishlist[1] for the Inkscape beginners' guide, but >> layouting/styling appears to be rather tedious (and partly impossible). >> And the booktype people only ever answer you, when we talk together. >> Perhaps my emails didn't get through to them? It happened twice... >> >> Maren >> >> [1] Start chapter with heading, then have a box with a larger tool icon, >> with keyboard shortcuts and short description, if it describes a tool. >> Have a specific class for inline tool icons. Have info boxes. Have a >> style for keyboard shortcuts that makes them look like actual keys. >> Don't produce so many empty pages. Have a proper caption for images. It >> also seems that links don't carry over into the pdf (for print, I guess >> that's alright, lol... but couldn't it automagically create footnotes >> from them, in that case?), etc. >> >> >> Am 29.01.2018 um 21:13 schrieb Mick Chesterman: >>> Thanks Maren, >>> >>> I've tried those settings with the Audacity manual and it looks better but still needs some tweaks. >>> http://objavi.booktype.pro/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.29-21.10.44.pdf >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Discuss on behalf of Maren Hachmann >>> Sent: 29 January 2018 13:19 >>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS Manuals / Booktype >>> >>> Here's some additional info that one of our devs has found out while >>> trying things out: >>> https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-docs/manuals/blob/master/beginners_guide/README.md >>> (he's not a native English speaker) >>> >>> Maren >>> >>> Am 29.01.2018 um 11:13 schrieb M R: >>>> Mick: >>>> >>>> >>>> I've had a quick look at your final link -- can you tell me where you >>>> found the stuff about pdf formatting? I'm not finding it. "Editing a >>>> Chapter" is pretty generic. And the "Tips and Tricks" section seems to >>>> all be about CSS stuff. >>>> >>>> >>>> While I don't love the widows and orphans, I could live with those if we >>>> could just get a TOC in there. But I don't know how to do it other than >>>> creating an actual chapter for the TOC, which would look totally strange >>>> in any other format. >>>> >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Discuss on behalf of >>>> Mick Chesterman >>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 29, 2018 1:25 AM >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] question about pdf generation on FLOSS >>>> Manuals / Booktype >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Matt, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards your question below about pdf generation. I have to admit I know >>>> next to nothing about this. >>>> >>>> My focus has always been on the web side of things. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It would be good if people could share any info they have. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We are using booktype 1.6. So I did a bit of research. >>>> >>>> There is some info on some of those aspects in the docs >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> CSS formatting >>>> >>>> http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/adding-css/ >>>> >>>> /chapter: Adding-Css / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers >>>> >>>> sourcefabric.booktype.pro >>>> Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> CSS tricks >>>> >>>> http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/some-tricks/ >>>> >>>> /chapter: Some-Tricks / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers >>>> >>>> sourcefabric.booktype.pro >>>> Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> A tip to insert Page breaks as a hack to avoid orphans and widows in pdfs >>>> >>>> http://sourcefabric.booktype.pro/booktype-16-for-authors-and-publishers/editing-a-chapter/ >>>> >>>> /chapter: Editing-A-Chapter / Booktype 1.6 for Authors and Publishers >>>> >>>> sourcefabric.booktype.pro >>>> Everything you ever wanted to know about Sourcefabric software is here! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Mick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>>> Behalf Of *M R >>>> *Sent:* 27 January 2018 20:04 >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mick (et al): >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> All great stuff on your changes and review. Thanks for addressing the >>>> table issue in the Menu chapter. And the image max-width: I didn't >>>> even know that could be adjusted. I had just ended up making all of my >>>> screenshots smaller so as to get around that distortion issue. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I think the ePub book proof looks really good. The pdf one doesn't seem >>>> to handle page-breaks very gracefully (among other issues), but it >>>> doesn't appear that there's a way to handle that at the level of the >>>> content-edit platform itself. Nor does the pdf seem to auto-generate a >>>> table of contents, which is a more significant failing -- but again >>>> these must be issues common to all Floss manuals in pdf. Or maybe there >>>> are settings you can fiddle with specific to generating PDFs on the >>>> platform. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In the "Recording" chapter, yes I do still see my bracketed >>>> comment/query about whether that Mac-specific config stuff was still >>>> applicable to 2.x. Certainly we should remove the comment. But it's >>>> still an open question to me whether we should remove any or all of the >>>> original Mac config info that follows too--and I think that can only be >>>> settled via experimentation with a Mac. So Rosalind or another Mac >>>> person will have to address that. I think we decided in general that we >>>> would *not* preserve in this manual any info pertaining only to 1.x >>>> versions of Audacity, at least unless it was clearly flagged as such. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mick, as to your final suggestion about moving the chapters around, I >>>> certainly see the logic insofar as the Tutorial chapters are much more >>>> 'fun'/interesting to read (as they were to re-write). However, there is >>>> probably a more compelling logic to walking through the UI >>>> systematically before diving into those tutorials, since at many points >>>> they embed the assumption that you know where to find a given menu item, >>>> or they only use the quickest shorthand (like "Go to Edit > Tracks > >>>> Split Track") rather than giving you screenshots or any more detailed >>>> guidance on the UI. Further, at least in the ePub format where the menu >>>> is readily accessible, it's easy enough for the reader to skip straight >>>> to the tutorials if they choose to. That is another reason, though, why >>>> having a TOC (and ideally a clickable one) is pretty vital for the PDF >>>> version too. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Anyway, thanks again for your work on this. If Rosalind can take a look >>>> at that Mac config stuff in the Record chapter, and if you know any >>>> magic you can do with the PDF-generate settings, then I think we're good >>>> to go for this iteration. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:*Discuss >>> > on behalf of >>>> mick at flossmanuals.net >>>> > >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 4:09 AM >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I've had a chance to review this, Great work! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Just one thing I think needs to be looked at >>>> >>>> * There's still a comment visible on Mac recording questions - it does >>>> seem like this might need some simplification here >>>> >>>> Here are some thing I did. >>>> >>>> * I've added 10px padding to table which I think helps. >>>> * I've removed a legacy issue about linux recording issues. >>>> * I've increased the max-width of image display to 800px , >>>> height:Auto to help with some image distortions. This seems to be >>>> fine on screen but doesn't take for the pdf, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I've generated pdfs and epubs here for testing too. >>>> >>>> http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-11.59.46.epub >>>> >>>> >>>> http://objavi.booktype.pro:80/data/books/audacity-en-2018.01.27-12.00.12.pdf >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> More general feedback is that the chapter under tutorials look great. >>>> Good work. >>>> >>>> I would be tempted to move them right to the front of the book as a more >>>> task focused start, and to move installation and the explanations of the >>>> file menus in the appendix. >>>> >>>> That way the reader can get started trying things out right away. That's >>>> just a suggestion tho. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Mick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 26/01/18 00:14, M R wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Martin: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It does need proofreading, as its been almost completely rewritten >>>> as part of the update to 2.x. Mick has offered to do that this >>>> weekend, but a pair of fresh eyes probably wouldn't hurt either--as >>>> long as Katou is reasonably expeditious, since we are trying to wrap >>>> this up and get it republished so it can actually get to users. >>>> Localization is another and certainly important issue: my only >>>> working language (at the level of something like this manual) is >>>> English, and if someone wanted to translate the revision into other >>>> languages that would be a good thing, but also I think a separate >>>> project. Finally, I don't know if Katou has prior expertise with >>>> Audacity, but if so, you could mention that this manual is far from >>>> comprehensive, esp in the 'How to' or tutorial chapters, and there's >>>> always opportunity to add in more chapters with additional >>>> functionality. Which would, again, though, be something we'd want >>>> to address in a further iteration of the manual, not the imminent one. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:*Discuss >>>> on behalf of Martin >>>> Kean >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:01 PM >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Maren and Matt, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I've just added Katou as a user, who is interested in proofreading >>>> and localisation, along with writing and editing. Does the Audacity >>>> manual need proofreading? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Username: katou >>>> >>>> Email: katou at live.it >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, Martin >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From:*Discuss >>>> on behalf of Maren >>>> Hachmann >>>> *Sent:* Friday, 26 January 2018 3:35:58 a.m. >>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, same URL - maybe something with your browser cache not refreshing? >>>> >>>> Maren >>>> >>>> Am 25.01.2018 um 09:04 schrieb Mick Chesterman: >>>> > Great but strange. >>>> > >>>> > What URL are you testing >>>> > I was testing here where it is still 12px for me on Firefox >>>> > http://write.flossmanuals.net/start-with-inkscape/test-chapter-for-trying-out-styling/ >>>> >>>> >>>> /chapter: Test-Chapter-For-Trying-Out-Styling / Start with ... >>>> >>>> >>>> write.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> Test Chapter (for trying out styling) This chapter is meant for >>>> trying out how to best style the book. This is a keyboard shortcut: >>>> Ctrl + A. This is a special note ... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> > Thanks >>>> > Mick >>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>> >> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On Behalf Of >>>> >> Maren Hachmann >>>> >> Sent: 24 January 2018 21:34 >>>> >> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >> >>>> >> I don't see any problems, it seemst to have worked just fine, see screenshot. >>>> >> >>>> >> Thank you very much, Mick! >>>> >> >>>> >> Maren >>>> >> >>>> >> Am 24.01.2018 um 21:33 schrieb Rosalind Lord: >>>> >>> Mick, would you like me to help with this? I have lots of experience >>>> >>> coding HTML and CSS. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> - Rosalind >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Mick Chesterman >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi there, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I've added an override but it doesn't seem to have taken. >>>> >>>> Can you start a ticket here and let's try to solve this together. >>>> >>>> https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/fm_booktype/issues >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Mick >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>>>> From: Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] On >>>> >>>>> Behalf Of Maren Hachmann >>>> >>>>> Sent: 23 January 2018 23:16 >>>> >>>>> To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Piggy-backing, as I've got a CSS change request, too: >>>> >>>>> The font size for ordered / unordered lists is too small by default >>>> >>>>> (12px instead of 13px for all other text in a manual), because the >>>> >>>>> lists are not wrapped in paragraphs (which have a font size of 13), >>>> >>>>> and inherit the body font size. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> As this doesn't only affect the Inkscape guide, but all books on the >>>> >>>>> site, and all lists in them, it needs to be fixed on server level. >>>> >>>>> Fixing each list individually, and thus having inline styles that >>>> >>>>> might mess up exporting would be possible, but tedious and ugly. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Could you please set the font size for lists inside the content area >>>> >>>>> to 13, too? >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> CSS to modify, starting line 1574 in booki.css: >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> #full-view-content p, #bookcontent p, #bookcontent ol, #bookcontent >>>> >>>>> ul { >>>> >>>>> font-size: 13px; >>>> >>>>> line-height: 140%; >>>> >>>>> margin: 1em 0; >>>> >>>>> padding: 0; >>>> >>>>> } >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>>> Maren >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Am 23.01.2018 um 04:31 schrieb M R: >>>> >>>>>> Thanks, Mick -- the weekend would be fine with me. Maybe best to >>>> >>>>>> have someone who has some familiarity with the old book, and in >>>> >>>>>> general with the folkways of FM. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> I may have mentioned this before, but there's one specific >>>> >>>>>> formatting issue I'd like you (or whoever reviews) to consider, >>>> >>>>>> aside from whatever else comes up. In the Menu Bar chapter there >>>> >>>>>> is extensive use of tables to hold the menu information. As I did >>>> >>>>>> wherever possible, here I preserved the formatting from the >>>> >>>>>> original book, where these tables were set to zero cell padding and >>>> >>>>>> no border. This worked well enough in the original version, when >>>> >>>>>> each cell entry was at most a single sentence in length, and it >>>> >>>>>> resulted in a nice clean design. However, Audacity 2.x's much more >>>> >>>>>> extensive use of submenus forced me to make considerably longer >>>> >>>>>> entries in some of those table cells, and I'm not certain how >>>> >>>>>> readable the end result is for some tables. I think the solution >>>> >>>>>> would be pretty straightforward: either adding a bit of cell padding to >>>> >> each table, or adding a narrow border. >>>> >>>>>> But I didn't want to go either way without consultation. I don't >>>> >>>>>> think this issue afflicts any chapter beyond the Menu Bar ch. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>> >>>>>> *From:* Discuss >>> >>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>> >>>>>> Chesterman >>>> >> > >>>> >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 1:00 AM >>>> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> HI there, >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> This sounds good. Can anyone step forward to have a look over the >>>> >>>>>> Audacity manual before we do a pdf and epub print for the front page? >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> I can do it at the weekend if not. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Mick >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Mick Chesterman >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Educational Innovation and Enterprise Tutor & >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> EdLab Project Developer >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Department of Childhood, Youth and Education Studies. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Manchester Metropolitan University >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Web: http://edlab.org.uk / Twitter: >>>> >>>>>> @EdLabMMU >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> EdLab MMU - Exploring Educational Innovation and ... >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> edlab.org.uk >>>> >>>>>> Exploring Educational Innovation and Enterprise in Education - >>>> >>>>>> Creatively generating projects rooted in community engagement and >>>> >>>>>> student experience. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Phone: 0161 2472060 >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> /Please note: My working days are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and >>>> >>>>> Thursday/ >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss [mailto:discuss-bounces at lists.flossmanuals.net] *On >>>> >>>>>> Behalf Of *M R >>>> >>>>>> *Sent:* 18 January 2018 21:05 >>>> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Mick: >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> It looks to me like other folks have finished adding in their >>>> >>>>>> pieces to the non-Windows sections of the manual re-write, so >>>> >>>>>> whenever you get a chance at some quality control (just because I >>>> >>>>>> assume that someone needs to, who hasn't been a >>>> >>>>>> writer-contributor), then we can wrap this up and get it published, >>>> >>>>>> to start helping whoever out there might actually want to use it. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Actually, I suppose someone else could handle the review too -- not >>>> >>>>>> sure what the protocol is here. But I just wanted to make sure >>>> >>>>>> this stays in the queue as a near-term task. I assume we all have >>>> >>>>>> day jobs ?(I'm a college professor so I was just on holiday break >>>> >>>>>> -- that's why I could find 50 hrs or so to do the bulk of the rewrite). >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> thanks, >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of Mick >>>> >>>>>> Chesterman >>>> >> >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 4:12 AM >>>> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> To exit chapter titles you just double click into the title on the >>>> >>>>>> chapter list screen. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> *From:*Discuss >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> > on behalf of M R >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> *Sent:*12 January 2018 10:55 >>>> >>>>>> *To:* discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> I actually wanted to edit some of the other chapter TITLES a bit, >>>> >>>>>> but couldn't figure out a way to do that. No big deal though, as >>>> >>>>>> the current titles will serve. I did drag one entire chapter out >>>> >>>>>> of the to-be-published structure and down to the bottom: that was >>>> >>>>>> "MP3 INSTALLATION ON WINDOWS" bc it's no longer necessary to >>>> >>>>>> install the >>>> >>>>> LAME >>>> >>>>>> MP3 codec separately. Just one of many ways that Audacity has >>>> >>>>>> gotten more user-friendly over the years. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>> >>>>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>> >>>>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> >>>>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>>>> - you can >>>> >>>>> unsubscribe here >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should >>>> >>>> read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer >>>> >>>> available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>>> >>>> you can unsubscribe here >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> Discuss mailing list >>>> >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - >>>> >>> you can unsubscribe here >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > "Before acting on this email or opening any attachments you should read the Manchester Metropolitan University email disclaimer available on its website http://www.mmu.ac.uk/emaildisclaimer " >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Discuss mailing list >>>> > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>> - you can unsubscribe here >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net >>>> - you can unsubscribe here >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >>> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net >> http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net > http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gpittman at iglou.com Wed Jan 31 12:00:39 2018 From: gpittman at iglou.com (Gregory Pittman) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 15:00:39 -0500 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de> <6b389df7-c5fb-4f7a-ab0b-8f81c9b9a720@flossmanuals.net> Message-ID: I made a minor edit in the Recording chapter: GIU > GUI. I don't have a lot of experience with Audacity, but on Fedora (PulseAudio) I find that either I need pavucontrol for setting up recording of streaming sound (from Firefox for example) or it's much easier with it. Something else I've noted just by trying it is that if you save an .mp4 file using something like downloadhelper in Firefox, you can import these into Audacity, where it only shows and plays the audio portion, of course, then export as .mp3 if you just want the sound. This can be the easiest way to get recordings, except when downloads are blocked, in which case recording the streaming is the way to go. Greg From matrobnew at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 12:26:40 2018 From: matrobnew at hotmail.com (M R) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 20:26:40 +0000 Subject: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book In-Reply-To: References: <50b2b311872f45d88a6aa37a64aa1f95@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <30e660dc-8d6f-4492-3516-c937e892db20@goos-habermann.de> <05554b58f2e347d693e00972ebdaf56b@BFEX02.ad.mmu.ac.uk> <0D3D2E08-94C6-4E53-91B9-52977C967F7D@seaserpent.com> <8d26e9a5-6492-46e5-f9d5-b4d0cbbf894e@goos-habermann.de> <9048b70d-97e9-17ce-e713-1f8984c69e26@goos-habermann.de> <6b389df7-c5fb-4f7a-ab0b-8f81c9b9a720@flossmanuals.net> , Message-ID: Greg: thanks for catching the GUI typo, that was probably me. I've also noticed, I remember vaguely, that you can import MP4s in Audacity and it will treat them effectively as MP3s. I don't think it says that in the official documentation though - or at least we'd need to find it first, before mentioning it in ours. Just IMHO. I've started getting used to ShotCut, an opensource video editor that inputs and outputs just about every file format known to humanity. Maybe that needs to be the next Floss Manual, as their official site has extremely sparse documentation -- it's a really good tool, holding it's own easily with all the other (really good) free video editors out there, but it seems to be literally two guys in their spare time, and they have no time for documenting anything. Audacity is now lavishly documented in comparison... Matt ________________________________ From: Discuss on behalf of Gregory Pittman Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 1:00 PM To: discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net Subject: Re: [FM Discuss] next steps on Audacity book I made a minor edit in the Recording chapter: GIU > GUI. I don't have a lot of experience with Audacity, but on Fedora (PulseAudio) I find that either I need pavucontrol for setting up recording of streaming sound (from Firefox for example) or it's much easier with it. Something else I've noted just by trying it is that if you save an .mp4 file using something like downloadhelper in Firefox, you can import these into Audacity, where it only shows and plays the audio portion, of course, then export as .mp3 if you just want the sound. This can be the easiest way to get recordings, except when downloads are blocked, in which case recording the streaming is the way to go. Greg _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss at lists.flossmanuals.net http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net - you can unsubscribe here Discuss Info Page - lists.flossmanuals.net lists.flossmanuals.net Discuss anything about floss manuals - its aims, what it does, how it does it, what it could do, and how it can be better. To see the collection of prior postings to ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: