[FM Discuss] scribn the bazaar

Mon Nov 9 05:28:24 PST 2009

hey

I just wanted to add a few notes to this conversation based in what
Chris said. 

On Sat, 2009-11-07 at 09:14 -0800, chris hofmann wrote:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/ybho2uv
> 
> I'd argue that tradtional publishers mostly use the cathedral style for:
> - "content generation",
> - and for "production" (e.g. the saugage making/polishing process driven 
> by a benevolent dictator) ,
> - and for "use" and "reuse".   

I agree with you, however I think with the Cathedral model there is
seldom an opportunity to reuse published material, despite good
intentions, since :
* books are much harder to dematerialize. ie. if you have only the
printed text, getting it into a digital form is tricky...hence, i think
the closet you can get to 'source' as in, open source, for books is if
the publisher provides digital versions of text, otherwise using open
content licenses is 'open' in name only - how many publishers provide
the digital text? not many if any.

* traditional publishing works with named authors and I *strongly*
believe the authorship culture retards reuse even if the content is
using a free culture / open license - this is part of the issue I have
with the 'cathedral-like' free publishers / content producers

* traditional publishing does not even 'throw the content over the
wall', it usually keeps the content trapped in a closed license, or a
'feel good' closed license like the FDL or CC BY-SA-NC

> 
> All of the life cycle stages for  "the work"  are all locked down.

interesting point. at fm there is a very strong concept of 'the work'.
we are as old world as anyone on this point. however, i am _very_
interested to see what happens when fm migrates to booki. With booki
content can be cloned since the content will be managed in the back end
by GIT. when anyone can clone a book to work on it, and possibly merge
the alterations upstream (or not) then reuse and definitions of 'the
work' will get much more interesting

> >
> > What I find interesting is that these projects, while seeing themselves
> > 'part of the bazaar' and wanting to rapidly produce material, and foster
> > collaboration, seem instead to produce books very slowly and without
> > much collaborative contributions within the text. They seem, in other
> > words, to mirror quite closely the Cathedral model for production. 
> >
> >   
> yeah, the question becomes "what will be the catalyst that changes the 
> thinking of open source developers and and open source followers that  
> should be recognizing this?"

yeah, its very interesting. I think part of the problem is that for so
long one of the mythical models for making money in open source was to
'give away the code, sell the book'. This is because publishers worked
with known developers and lured them into wasting 6-12 months of their
life in a dark room (which is actually not too much of a change of scene
for most developers ;)...most authors that brought into this myth did
not make money, although they could always say they were a published
author - and that was at least something to talk about at parties. the
left over legacy of this model is that there are very many open source
developers that dont see an idealogical clash when they choose to invest
their time in making free software and then following it up by making
proprietary documentation...

part of trying to wake them up is, i believe, showing them that the two
ideologies (free software & free content) are the same, that the old
model is actually retarding the usefulness of their docs and code, AND that the
future of free software can enormously benefit from free documentation

> 
> See page 38 from the google books link above.
> 
>     "... 10.  [If you treat your beta-testers as your most valuable
>     resource they will become your most valuable resource.]
> 
> FLOSS manuals is scratching the itch of groups that want to write 
> manuals,   releaseing early and often, and the other things Eric 
> articulated so well.    But, is it doing the job needed to understand 
> the consumers of books and manuals.  

yeah, we arent doing anything in this realm.

>  
> 
> -Is FLOSS Manuals sharing and understand information about how widely 
> those manuals are being used?
> - how useful are the books and manuals to others?
> - what the feedback is from people that tried to use the manuals?
> - how could he works could be improved to better meet the needs of more 
> users?
> --- are the works helping people to solve problems or understand complex 
> topics better?
> - are the books and manuals gainning higher distribution and utility?
> --- which ones are, and which ones are not?
> 
> Getting one work that really gets wide spread use and adoption by 
> gathering, sharing, and acting on this kind data and really produces a 
> polished book on a topic of wide interest might be the key that turns 
> heads about how effective this publishing mechanism is over traditional 
> publishing.
> 
> There are a number of  recent best sellers that deal with the changes in 
> society around free and open culture, and about new thinking around 
> behavior economics of "free and open".   If a book on that topic was 
> produced using the FLOSS manual process by people that have been 
> participating and observing the cutting edge of free/open/transparent 
> development for over the last decade that would be a pretty powerful 
> statement.

so...many interesting points here. Firstly, one way to learn more about
the reader is to look at stats, but as i mentioned before on the list, i
am very very wary of the role statistics play in leading people to
decide what content should be. 

I am not in agreement, for example, with Andys position that the matrix
of 'most read, most used' is a good way to think about the value of
documentation or the value of contributions.  What if your doc doesnt
get used by many? I think its still very important for that doc to
exist. Having trawled the web many times for arcane docs i am
_eternally_ grateful for that one geek that took the time to write down
how they got x.config working with redhat 5 on a small format first
generation sony vaio...for example...if there is too much matrixified
report-back i am worried these docs dont get written.

also, i think stats allow you to see with marginal clarity what lies
immediately behind you. using it to decide where you are going is
hazardous

i would rather think about the topic on the level that Bob Steim from
the 'Future of the Book Institute' puts it - books are a place where
readers and writers meet. With books this meeting is very asynchronous,
but we are in an interesting position to see what happens when we change
the temporal scale of this meeting. so...books (/docs) have a value in
their own right, but they might also have an additional value when seen
through the light of Bobs insight. this is the kind of concept i would
rather we pursued when discussing 'value'

as for the blockbuster...hehe...well, maybe we get one someday despite
our best intentions ;) however, i dont know how the mechanics of these
things work, and it seems rather like betting your pension at the races.
i would be more happy planning the steady build up we are doing, and
then if something big comes along and speeds it up - cool - if not, then
things are going to plan :)

adam

> 
> Maybe the booki could also help to engage more with the users of the 
> books and manuals.
> 
> -chofmann
> > thoughts...?
> >
> > adam
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-- 
Adam Hyde
Founder FLOSS Manuals
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Email : adam at flossmanuals.net
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