[FM Discuss] updated IBD

[Camille Acey/FLOSS Manuals]

Hi Mick,
> I was surprised that lots of people who do nothing in the garden, and
> who sometimes walk and cycle from miles away come and pick the fruit. I
> struggled with this a bit at the beginning.

*Daniel sez:*
There's a difference between free culture and freeloading. What starts
as cheeky ends with outright theft, if those people get away with it. It
stems from a lack of respect for the people who did the growing. Trading
information on other sites where fruit can be stolen is no substitute
for helping grow more trees.

*Camille sez: *

I unfortunately have to slightly agree with Daniel here. I don't think that
this community project was expressly Free and Open in the way we have been
speaking about. From what Mick says, I don't think the gardeners put a sign
out or told anyone "Take what you want! Change what you want! Contribute
what you want!" Also fruit is a FINITE resource whereas culture and
software are NOT. Making another version of the Mona Lisa or copying a
piece of software does not make the original software obsolete, if anything
it is a value added to the culture or software. The Mona Lisa is so
valuable because we've all seen it reproduced and remixed so many different
times. Scarcity can fuel the concerns of the gardener but to scream
scarcity in discussions about software or culture rings hollow.

BUT I disagree with Daniel about this "lack of respect" business. I don't
think there needs to be a one to one relationship between eating and
growing. If we are taking a hike in nature, water is free to drink from any
fresh river, what did we do to make that available. Nothing. It is a gift
from nature. We don't need to drop a quarter in the river or jump in the
river and help it flow. It just does. When and where we can we should
support clean rivers and waterways, but honestly most of us don't. Same
with air. Same with so many finite resources.

But whatever, none of this has anything to do directly with free culture or
free software (asides from the fact that detractors try to invoke it in
order to condemn Free Culture supporters), so  I don't want to have that
conversation here.

*Daniel sez:*
You can be relaxed about this situation if you have enough fruit for
your own needs, i.e. a production surplus. Imagine those people picked
every last item of fruit and then sold it, then demanded that you
maintained the trees (for free) so that they can do the same thing next
year.

*Camille sez: *
Again, there is the very important distinction between FINITE and INFINITE
resources here that you are conveniently avoiding. Let's reword this here
in two ways:

*You can be relaxed about this situation if you have enough CULTURE for your
own needs, i.e. a production surplus. Imagine those people picked every
last item of CULTURE and then sold it, then demanded that you maintained
the CULTURE MANUFACTURING (for free) so that they can do the same thing
next year.*

OR

*You can be relaxed about this situation if you have enough SOFTWARE for your
own needs, i.e. a production surplus. Imagine those people picked every
last item of SOFTWARE and then sold it, then demanded that you maintained
the SOFTWARE PRODUCTION  (for free) so that they can do the same thing next
year.*
*
*
When you put it that way, it is patently absurd. No one can haz all deee
culturez or all dee softwarez. Freedom is about use, reuse, repurposing,
distributing in the ways that you see fit and keeping it all Free. Is it
wrong when people take something Free and make it non-Free? Yes. But it
happens all<http://www.elearnspace.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/xerox.jpg>
the <http://www.achievement.org/achievers/ell0/photos/ell0-006a.gif>
time<http://api.ning.com/files/EmY1eY*Co8L*1kUvLZo8lzI9U-dYvQa2Ki3w7IkBYIWylNOC5KjOnWdG4j1TRHMIXSUSIrAwqRUN9X31SLsx4ykTG4zgFiDH/Googlestewiegoogle.png>.
Does  this mean we should turn our backs on open source? Shutter our doors
and become non-Free because hey "We gotta eat!" Well, thus far, nothing you
have said has convinced me of that.

I do wonder if you are conflating Free (as in freedom) and free (as in
"free slice of pizza!") here.  If you don't make money on something you
worked on, well, maybe you should have arranged for pay ahead of time if
that's what you are after. In the company where I work for, 30 of us get
paid every day to make, promote, and sell Free software. Or maybe you
should bone up on your open source business
models<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_models_for_open_source_software>.
There's money to be made from Free Culture and Free Software if that's what
you're after....
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