Re need for CF list, I've copied FM-discuss since nobody said they minded me doing that.<br><br>The historical collaboration is super interesting. I added it as a bullet to the things we didn't get to chapter.<br><br>
I also attempted to wrap up the free as in free world chapter by moving some of it to the things we didn't get to chapter and adding a closing paragraph.<br><br>Are we done now? ;-)<br><br>Mike<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 3:15 AM,
Michael Mandiberg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mandiberg@gmail.com">mandiberg@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div>I understand best practices, but i
think mushon has put it well below. I am also on the FM discuss digest
list, and I only rarely read the emails b/c there is so much that is not
my signal. i would suggest that if we use the list, we put a prefix on
all emails. so a subject line would read something like this: </div><div><br></div><div>CF:
I will get the ISBN</div><div><br></div><div>that way we can filter for
the messages (visually or w/in yr email software)</div><br><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div class="im"><div>On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Mushon Zer-Aviv wrote:</div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" style="direction: ltr;">
<div class="im">I generally agree
with the generic best practice, and I see Adam's rational in prefering 1
live list rather than 2 dormant ones.<br>I personally would like to see
CF be a dormant one and have people drop by whenever actual work is
being (/needs to be) done on the book.<br>I am pretty sure the rest of
the FM list would not have appreciated the noise of our back and forth
about glossary and formatting and I would not really be interested in
the internal discussion over a book about ffmpeg2theora. It is like
saying, if you are into books, you'll be into any book. I beg to differ.<br><br>I
say, if the list wants to try the FM list then let's do that for a
month, and then decide if we deserve our own place or not. I personally
think it would be more practical to start with our own list.<br><br>Re:
Michael's find<br>Super interesting stuff... It would be great for this
to be either an case study or a glossary item. Are you into writing it?<br>Even
more important, would you help get us a new ISBN? I am pretty
overloaded with both CF and my own work and could really use the help. I
can give my CC or repay you or whatever. When we get that done, I will
calculate how much do we have left out of the $1000 fortune we got for
the second sprint and will follow up with Verina, Astra and Catherine to
suck a few dollars as writer fees from it.<br><br>cheers,<br></div><div><p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px;">Mushon Zer-Aviv</span><br><span style="font-family: Georgia; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-size: 12px;"><span><shual_gray.gif></span><span> </span><a href="http://shual.com/" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 136, 51);" target="_blank">Shual.com</a><span> </span>- design studio<div>
<div class="h5"><br>§ <a href="http://shiftspace.org/" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 136, 51);" target="_blank">ShiftSpace.org</a><span> </span>-
an opensource layer above any website<br>¶ <a href="http://mushon.com/" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 136, 51);" target="_blank">Mushon.com</a><span> </span>-
blog<br>×<span> </span><a href="http://twitter.com/mushon" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 136, 51);" target="_blank">@mushon</a><span> </span>-
Tweet me<br>+ 1-646-283-6057</div></div></span></p></div><div><div class="h5"><br>On 7/9/10 5:09 AM, Mike Linksvayer wrote:<blockquote type="cite">Adam's advice is definitely the generic best practice --
don't split a list until it gets painful. Let's just use FM until/unless
we have a good problem to have.<br><br>Mike<br><br>ps Anyone care if FM
list just gets copied on this thread as an intro? :-)<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:32 AM, adam hyde<span> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adam@flossmanuals.net" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 136, 51);" target="_blank">adam@flossmanuals.net</a>></span><span> </span>wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">its up to you guys. i
think its usually better to add to a community and<br>depart when it
makes no more sense than to decide to set a new one up<br>which may or
may not gain momentum. there are plenty of people on the fm<br>list that
would find this post interesting. it is a community used to<br>experimenting
with the idea of books and the process of creating them<br><br>you
could preface the subject with CF: - to catch y'all<br><br>adam<br><div><div><br><br><br><br><br><br>On
Thu, 2010-07-08 at 22:06 -0700, Michael Mandiberg wrote:<br>> i send
this FYI, and also as a very good reason why i think there<br>>
should be a CF specific mailing list (i had to go find an old email<br>>
and copy-paste, rather than sending to<span> </span><a href="mailto:CF-discuss@flossmanuals.net" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 136, 51);" target="_blank">CF-discuss@flossmanuals.net</a>).
i<br>> don't think this is appropriate for the FM list: i think it
would get<br>> lost in that list, and i don't think it would reach
any of the CF<br>> participants. I'm on the FM list, and I rarely
read it at this point.<br>> too much noise, not enough signals
directed at me. at some point,<br>> one-mailing-list-fits-all doesn't
work anymore.<br>><br>><br>> so... I just saw this in an email
from LACE in Los Angeles. It is a<br>> collaborative writing project
that refers back to work done by<br>> Bernadette Meyer, a NYC poet
from the 70's and 80's. A bit of research<br>> from here:<span> </span><a href="http://jacketmagazine.com/07/rifkin07.html" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 136, 51);" target="_blank">http://jacketmagazine.com/07/rifkin07.html</a><span> </span>lead
me to these<br>> two paragraphs. thought you all would be interested<br>><br>><br>>
Unnatural Acts, the magazine that emerged from Mayer's Poetry Project<br>>
workshop in 1972, also reflects a certain resistance, and suggests the<br>>
distinct environment of the workshop as it contributed to the<br>>
variegated nature of the St. Mark's scene as a whole. In its treatment<br>>
of authorship and issues of literary property, Unnatural Acts might be<br>>
situated on a continuum with such precursor little magazines as Cid<br>>
Corman's Origin and Berrigan's "C," but it positions itself so far<br>>
down that line that it ends up constituting a major departure. In its<br>>
first issue, Unnatural Acts came out entirely without attribution or<br>>
editorial information. Issue 1 consists of fifty-seven numbered<br>>
sections, concluding comically and somewhat self-reflexively with a<br>>
lone plaintive voice asking, "Does everyone here know what / an ashram<br>>
is except me?"<br>><br>><br>> The product of a group of people
gathering at Mayer's loft, writing<br>> for 8 hours, and then
publishing the results, this first issue<br>> of Unnatural Acts
exhibits all of the unevenness that might be<br>> expected from such a
process. The second issue, which opened its doors<br>> to people
outside the workshop, offers an explicit account of<br>> editorial
policy and aesthetic agenda. A sidebar that continues from<br>> the
front to the back cover declares that "each issue of unnatural<br>>
acts magazine will be a collaborative writing experiment," going on to<br>>
name the eleven contributors, indicate the date (November 11, 1972) on<br>>
which the issue was written, and describe the fairly elaborate<br>>
procedure out of which it developed: each writer brought a page of<br>>
writing which was traded, rewritten, and discarded. Participants then<br>>
selected one of the rewritten documents and used it as the basis for a<br>>
new piece of writing. They noted the time at which their new work was<br>>
completed, returned it to a common pile, and then chose another page<br>>
to begin the process again; in the end, the poems were arranged<br>>
chronologically to produce the magazine's format. The front and back<br>>
covers (which you've got) contain a kind of disembodied conversation,<br>>
commenting on this process and theorizing collaboration more<br>>
generally. Just yesterday I found in the archive a sketch for this<br>>
cover where this material is called a "manifesto" - it seems typical<br>>
of the Unnatural Actsinitiative to revise the manifesto into a more<br>>
dialogic and accretive form.<br>> Unnatural Acts 5 also elaborates
its process, which directed writers<br>> and visual artists through
four stages of collaborative engagement and<br>> exchange. After that
issue, the magazine terminated, a fact<br>> attributable to funding
problems, though it has been suggested that<br>> potential
contributors from the community were discouraged by the<br>>
magazine's no-names policy. "Our poems aren't our appearances," one<br>>
excerpt from the Issue 2 cover maintains, "when you take out the I's /<br>>
everybody is matched." It is tempting to imagine a community as well<br>>
as a poetics founded on "taking out the I's," and it seems that<br>>
Mayer's workshop and the extended group of writers and artists<br>>
surrounding it began to approximate such a space. In its desire to<br>>
take on the "unnatural" as its primary model for producing artworks,<br>>
the workshop deviates radically from the fantasies of<br>>
self-legitimation and organicism manifest in so many of the New<br>>
Americans' poetic and institutional productions. The "necessity . . .<br>>
to be as wood is," declared by Olson in "Projective Verse," is nowhere<br>>
felt in Unnatural Acts, and Berrigan's half-ironic claim, that "I was<br>>
and am "C" magazine...And I intended and intend for "C" to exist as a<br>>
personal aesthetic statement by me," finds no correlative in Mayer's<br>>
near-invisible self-positioning. In place of individual ambition,<br>>
process itself appears to reign. In Issue 2, the collaboratively<br>>
produced poems begin to meditate on the linguistic and social<br>>
implications of this fact. I've given you one such poem, apparently<br>>
submitted at 3:55. It begins:<br>><br>> m<br>><br>><br>>
Begin forwarded message:<br>><br>> > NOT CONTENT: UN-NATURAL
ACTS<br>> > w/ Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin<br>> ><br>>
><br>> > Performances and Collaborative Writing Marathon<br>>
><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Taking its name from the
historic collaborative writing marathons<br>> > led by Bernadette
Mayer and others in NYC during 1972-73, UN-NATURAL<br>> > ACTS
will explore the themes of hunger, war, and desire through<br>> >
public acts of collaboration.<br>> ><br>> > Beginning with
two days of installation and performance by Amina<br>> > Cain and
Jennifer Karmin, a group of ten writers will gather on the<br>> >
third day to write together over the course of eight hours. In a<br>>
> daily ritual inaugurated on the fourth day, the outline of a new<br>>
> person's body will be traced onto the bodies of text until the<br>>
> project closes on 8 August.<br>> ><br>> > EVENTS:<br>>
> Wed 21 July: Installation (12-5pm) and Hunger Texts Read in the<br>>
> Dark performance (5-5:30pm) by Amina Cain<br>> ><br>>
> Thu 22 July: Installation (12-5pm) and 4000 Words 4000 Dead<br>>
> street performance (5-6pm) by Jennifer Karmin<br>> ><br>>
> Fri 23 July: Unnatural Acts, 8 hours of collaborative writing<br>>
> (12-8pm). Collaborators include: Jennifer Karmin, Amina Cain,
Teresa<br>> > Carmody, Saehee Cho, India Radfar, K. Lorraine
Graham, Harold<br>> > Abramowitz, Janice Lee, and a few surprises.<br>>
><br>> > July 24: Collaborative Reading and Artists' Talk
(4-6pm). Readers<br>> > include: Jennifer Karmin, Amina Cain,
Teresa Carmody, Saehee Cho,<br>> > India Radfar, K. Lorraine
Graham, Harold Abramowitz, Janice Lee, and<br>> > more.<br>>
><br>> > UN-NATURAL ACTS is part of NOT CONTENT, a series of
text projects<br>> > curated by Les Figues Press for Kim
Schoenstadt's Painted<br>> > Over/Under: Part 1.<br>> ><br>>
> Photo Credit: Bernadette Mayer and Jennifer Karmin August 2009, an<br>>
> afternoon of collaborative writing Photo by Philip Good.<br>>
><br>> ><br>><br>><br><br></div></div>--<br>Adam Hyde<br>Founder
FLOSS Manuals<br>German mobile : + 49 177 4935122<br>Email :<span> </span><a href="mailto:adam@flossmanuals.net" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 136, 51);" target="_blank">adam@flossmanuals.net</a><br>irc:<span> </span><a href="http://irc.freenode.net/" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 136, 51);" target="_blank">irc.freenode.net</a><span> </span>#flossmanuals<br>
<br>"Free
manuals for free software"<br><a href="http://www.flossmanuals.net/about" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 136, 51);" target="_blank">http://www.flossmanuals.net/about</a><br><br><br></blockquote></div>
<br><br clear="all"><br>--<span> </span><br>Mike Linksvayer, Vice President<br>Creative
Commons<br>171 Second Street, Suite 300<br>San Francisco, CA 94105<br>office:
+1 415-369-8480<br>fax: +1 415-278-9419<br>various: mlinksva<br>email
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are not intended to be legal advice nor should they be relied upon as,
or represented to be legal advice. Creative Commons cannot and does not
give legal advice. You need to assess the suitability of Creative
Commons tools for your particular situation, which may include obtaining
appropriate legal advice from a licensed attorney.<br><br>Note: I am in
the office Monday through Friday, though I work from home some days. I
am reachable electronically more hours than is healthy.<br><br>This
email is:<br> [ ] already on wikileaks [X] ask first [ ] top
secret<br><br>Sent from a full-sized keyboard interfacing with GNU/Linux
2.6.32-22-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 22:02:19 UTC 2010 i686<br></blockquote></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Mike Linksvayer, Vice President<br>
Creative
Commons<br>171 Second Street, Suite 300<br>San Francisco, CA 94105<br>office:
+1 415-369-8480<br>fax: +1 415-278-9419<br>various: mlinksva<br>email
(preferred): scroll up<br><br>Please note: the contents of this email
are not intended to be legal advice nor should they be relied upon as,
or represented to be legal advice. Creative Commons cannot and does not
give legal advice. You need to assess the suitability of Creative
Commons tools for your particular situation, which may include obtaining
appropriate legal advice from a licensed attorney.<br><br>Note: I am in
the office Monday through Friday, though I work from home some days. I
am reachable electronically more hours than is healthy.<br><br>This
email is:<br> [ ] already on wikileaks [X] ask first [ ] top
secret<br><br>Sent from a full-sized keyboard interfacing with GNU/Linux
2.6.32-22-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 22:02:19 UTC 2010 i686<br>