<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi, I'm resurrecting this discussion from over 2.5 years ago, sorry.</div><div><div><br></div><div>We have been updating the "current" document here => <a href="https://en.flossmanuals.net/pd-extended/_full/" target="_blank">https://en.flossmanuals.net/pd-extended/_full/</a></div><div><br></div><div>What happened was that the Pd FLOSS Manual is just adding more noise and confusion than really helping.</div><div><br></div><div>Pure Data has an official manual, see <a href="https://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/index.htm">https://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/index.htm</a> and, by the way, I am the one in the community that has been mostly engaged in working with Pd's manual and all of its documentation, help files, etc... you can see I am part of the Pd team in the Pure Data repository and one with the most commits count/collaboration <a href="https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/graphs/contributors">https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/graphs/contributors</a></div><div><br></div><div>A couple of years ago we did update the FLOSS manual to make it clear it was a 'Pd Extended' manual, which I think is a good improvement, but more needs to be made because what I've seen over the years is that people are still very very very confused on what Pd's manual is and where to find and still think that a parallel document from almost 20 years ago that did represent a fork of Pd is the actual manual and official source. This is bad, just bad. </div><div><br></div><div>And one thing that contributes to that is that google is still showing this webarchive as a top result <a href="https://archive.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/">https://archive.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/</a></div><div><br></div><div>This is the archived version that makes it not clear at all the minimum changes that were made to the current manual. And it is weird that the old archived one shows up on the very top and on top of the non archived pd manual document from FLOSS.</div><div><br></div><div>What I asked a few years ago (and I am sorry I didn't insist on it) is to simply at least delete the archived version of the so called 'Pd manual', which is not a real thing, and it is an outdated duplicated version of the other less confusing Pd-Extended Manual.</div><div><br></div><div>For those unaware, Pd-extended was a fork of Pd, so not the real thing, and it is long gone and abandoned, for over a decade! It doesn't run in newer versions of macOS, for instance. Warnings have been made that the current Manual regards Pd Extended and is being kept as a historical document, and that it can still be useful if you adapt the examples to the current version of the official and main distribution of Pure Data (aka Pd Vanilla) and install the externals used on the book.</div><div><br></div><div><div>I also mentioned how there were no plans whatsoever to start a new and updated manual on <span class="gmail-il">FLOSS</span> Manuals. The Pd Manual resides on Miller's website and I hope that we can minimize the noise and confusion. Our (mine mostly) efforts are just in improving the official manual that comes with Pd Vanilla. </div></div><div><br></div><div>So, this was the context of that old discussion, let me address the response from Mick and then reply it back.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em seg., 29 de nov. de 2021 às 13:19, Mick Fuzz <<a href="mailto:mick@flossmanuals.net">mick@flossmanuals.net</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi there, <br>
</p>
<p>The archive site at <a href="http://archive.flossmanuals.net" target="_blank">archive.flossmanuals.net</a> - is a snap shot of
flossmanuals about 7 or 8 years ago or so. <br>
</p>
<p>So it's not straightforward to delete things from it. And well
the idea isn't really to keep that archive up to date as it's an
archive :) I don't think it's a good idea to subtract from an
archive. But yes better signposting that it is an archive and
where to find up to date things would be really useful. I'm keen
to work on that.</p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>In this case, there is no point in keeping this, sorry, it's just making it worse and I still find people confused, to this day, that this is the Pd Manual. So please, let's just find a way to remove this archived version, and, well, if you ask me, I still find no good purpose on keeping the more up to date version for historical reasons since that software is dead for so long and can't run on modern computers and OSes. If anything, I can try and adapt the information there for Vanilla, completely out of the Floss Manuals world, and into the Pure Data official documentation, so I'd like to also discuss that option that we just remove 'Pd' stuff completely from Floss Manuals. Nonetheless, this would require more discussion, time and coordinated efforts, but for now I hope we can just remove this archived version that is not really contributing to anything, on the contrary.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you and sorry again for not following this up. </div><div><br></div><div>Alex</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>
</p>
<div>On 29/11/2021 10:31, Helen Varley
Jamieson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>i would say delete all duplicate copies, it just makes it
confusing :)<br>
</p>
<div>On 28.11.21 17:18, Alexandre Torres
Porres wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Em qui., 25 de nov. de 2021 às 06:25, Mick
Chesterman <<a href="mailto:M.Chesterman@mmu.ac.uk" target="_blank">M.Chesterman@mmu.ac.uk</a>>
escreveu:<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi there, </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ve been working with Alexandre
Porres from the pure data community to correct older
versions of our pure data manual and the current
one.</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi folks, that's me!<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have been updating the "current" document here
=> <a href="https://en.flossmanuals.net/pd-extended/_full/" target="_blank">https://en.flossmanuals.net/pd-extended/_full/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One thing that was confusing is that this was referred
to as a "Pure Data" manual, but was in fact a
"Pd-extended" manual. We changed the title and I'm editing
the first introduction page. What needs to be updated
there is the fact that Pd-extended is long gone and
abandoned, and it doesn't run in newer versions of macOS,
for instance. Warnings have been made that the book is
being kept as a historical document, and that it can still
be useful if you adapt the examples to the current version
of the official and main distribution of Pure Data (aka Pd
Vanilla) and install the externals used on the book.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>By the way, there are currently no plans whatsoever
to start a new and updated manual on FLOSS Manuals, or
elsewhere. Anything like that is pretty unlikely to
happen. Our efforts are just in improving the official
manual that comes with Pd Vanilla (now currently
referred to in the edits I made to the "current" FLOSS
manual). </div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now, we also have this archived version of the same
book. And I just don't understand why it exists. It was
actually the exact same book, with the same contents as
the "new one". We now have minor edits to explain the
current scenario and avoid confusions, but keeping the
archived version still adds noise and confusion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for possible solutions, we can make the same changes
back into the archived one. But why keep both identical
books around? One archived, and another not?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It just makes sense to me to delete the old archived
one and just keep this new one around, which also the same
document.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What do you people think?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks a lot for your work keeping up FLOSS Manuals.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<div>-- <br>
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</p>
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