<div dir="ltr">Hey, while we're at it, I'd like to enjoy this opportunity to edit and work more on the current editable and updatable document. Though I'm having trouble login in and stuff.<div><br></div><div>Can you help me and guide me through?</div><div><br></div><div>thanks!</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em qua., 3 de jul. de 2024 às 17:49, Alexandre Torres Porres <<a href="mailto:porres@gmail.com">porres@gmail.com</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi, thanks, I made a request to just delete it. Hope it's good.<div><br></div><div>Let me know how it goes, I'm not used to gitlab, I'm on github destop</div><div><br></div><div>thanks</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em qua., 3 de jul. de 2024 às 16:36, mick <<a href="mailto:mick@flossmanuals.net" target="_blank">mick@flossmanuals.net</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi there Alexandre, <br>
</p>
<p>Can I ask you to to do a pull request on the following git
repository? <br>
<a href="https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/archive.flossmanuals.net" target="_blank">https://gitlab.com/flossmanuals/archive.flossmanuals.net</a><br>
<br>
That way you can either put in an update to where you want it to
point to or just remove content entirely<br>
</p>
<p>Have a nice day!<br>
Mick<br>
</p>
<div>On 03/07/2024 18:04, Alexandre Torres
Porres wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi, I'm resurrecting this discussion from over 2.5 years
ago, sorry.</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have been updating the "current" document here => <a href="https://en.flossmanuals.net/pd-extended/_full/" target="_blank">https://en.flossmanuals.net/pd-extended/_full/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What happened was that the Pd FLOSS Manual is just adding
more noise and confusion than really helping.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Pure Data has an official manual, see <a href="https://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/index.htm" target="_blank">https://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/index.htm</a>
and, by the way, I am the one in the community that has been
mostly engaged in working with Pd's manual and all of its
documentation, help files, etc... you can see I am part of
the Pd team in the Pure Data repository and one with the
most commits count/collaboration <a href="https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/graphs/contributors" target="_blank">https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/graphs/contributors</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A couple of years ago we did update the FLOSS manual to
make it clear it was a 'Pd Extended' manual, which I think
is a good improvement, but more needs to be made because
what I've seen over the years is that people are still very
very very confused on what Pd's manual is and where to find
and still think that a parallel document from almost 20
years ago that did represent a fork of Pd is the actual
manual and official source. This is bad, just bad. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And one thing that contributes to that is that google is
still showing this webarchive as a top result <a href="https://archive.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/" target="_blank">https://archive.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is the archived version that makes it not clear at
all the minimum changes that were made to the current
manual. And it is weird that the old archived one shows up
on the very top and on top of the non archived pd manual
document from FLOSS.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What I asked a few years ago (and I am sorry I didn't
insist on it) is to simply at least delete the archived
version of the so called 'Pd manual', which is not a real
thing, and it is an outdated duplicated version of the
other less confusing Pd-Extended Manual.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For those unaware, Pd-extended was a fork of Pd, so not
the real thing, and it is long gone and abandoned, for over
a decade! It doesn't run in newer versions of macOS, for
instance. Warnings have been made that the current Manual
regards Pd Extended and is being kept as a historical
document, and that it can still be useful if you adapt the
examples to the current version of the official and main
distribution of Pure Data (aka Pd Vanilla) and install the
externals used on the book.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>I also mentioned how there were no plans whatsoever to
start a new and updated manual on <span>FLOSS</span> Manuals.
The Pd Manual resides on Miller's website and I hope that
we can minimize the noise and confusion. Our (mine mostly)
efforts are just in improving the official manual that
comes with Pd Vanilla. </div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, this was the context of that old discussion, let me
address the response from Mick and then reply it back.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em seg., 29 de nov. de 2021
às 13:19, Mick Fuzz <<a href="mailto:mick@flossmanuals.net" target="_blank">mick@flossmanuals.net</a>>
escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi there, <br>
</p>
<p>The archive site at <a href="http://archive.flossmanuals.net" target="_blank">archive.flossmanuals.net</a> -
is a snap shot of flossmanuals about 7 or 8 years ago or
so. <br>
</p>
<p>So it's not straightforward to delete things from it.
And well the idea isn't really to keep that archive up
to date as it's an archive :) I don't think it's a good
idea to subtract from an archive. But yes better
signposting that it is an archive and where to find up
to date things would be really useful. I'm keen to work
on that.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In this case, there is no point in keeping this, sorry,
it's just making it worse and I still find people confused,
to this day, that this is the Pd Manual. So please, let's
just find a way to remove this archived version, and, well,
if you ask me, I still find no good purpose on keeping the
more up to date version for historical reasons since that
software is dead for so long and can't run on modern
computers and OSes. If anything, I can try and adapt the
information there for Vanilla, completely out of the Floss
Manuals world, and into the Pure Data official
documentation, so I'd like to also discuss that option that
we just remove 'Pd' stuff completely from Floss Manuals.
Nonetheless, this would require more discussion, time and
coordinated efforts, but for now I hope we can just remove
this archived version that is not really contributing to
anything, on the contrary.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you and sorry again for not following this up. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alex</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p> </p>
<div>On 29/11/2021 10:31, Helen Varley Jamieson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>i would say delete all duplicate copies, it just
makes it confusing :)<br>
</p>
<div>On 28.11.21 17:18, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Em qui., 25 de nov. de 2021 às 06:25,
Mick Chesterman <<a href="mailto:M.Chesterman@mmu.ac.uk" target="_blank">M.Chesterman@mmu.ac.uk</a>>
escreveu:<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi there, </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’ve been working with
Alexandre Porres from the pure data
community to correct older versions of our
pure data manual and the current one.</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi folks, that's me!<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have been updating the "current" document
here => <a href="https://en.flossmanuals.net/pd-extended/_full/" target="_blank">https://en.flossmanuals.net/pd-extended/_full/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One thing that was confusing is that this was
referred to as a "Pure Data" manual, but was in
fact a "Pd-extended" manual. We changed the
title and I'm editing the first introduction
page. What needs to be updated there is the fact
that Pd-extended is long gone and abandoned, and
it doesn't run in newer versions of macOS, for
instance. Warnings have been made that the book
is being kept as a historical document, and that
it can still be useful if you adapt the examples
to the current version of the official and main
distribution of Pure Data (aka Pd Vanilla) and
install the externals used on the book.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>By the way, there are currently no plans
whatsoever to start a new and updated manual
on FLOSS Manuals, or elsewhere. Anything like
that is pretty unlikely to happen. Our efforts
are just in improving the official manual that
comes with Pd Vanilla (now currently referred
to in the edits I made to the "current" FLOSS
manual). </div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>------</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now, we also have this archived version of
the same book. And I just don't understand why
it exists. It was actually the exact same book,
with the same contents as the "new one". We now
have minor edits to explain the current scenario
and avoid confusions, but keeping the archived
version still adds noise and confusion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for possible solutions, we can make the
same changes back into the archived one. But why
keep both identical books around? One archived,
and another not?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It just makes sense to me to delete the old
archived one and just keep this new one around,
which also the same document.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What do you people think?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks a lot for your work keeping up FLOSS
Manuals.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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</p>
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