[FM Discuss] berlin pricing

[adam hyde]

hey

On Sun, 2009-07-05 at 14:49 +0200, Derek Holzer wrote:
> Hi Adam,

> So I am curious what your idea of "profit" is. It seems you are quite 
> nervous about charging what these manuals actually are worth in terms of 
> what it takes to produce them, and that this nervousness about money 
> could be ideological rather than practical.
> 

Profit : selling the books for more than the price it costs to produce
them.

> I'm not of the mindset that Free Software means that nobody gets paid. 
> That is a recipe for lazy production and poor content (as well as poor 
> content-producers!). In my mind, non-profit doesn't mean anti-money, 
> whereas anti-money comes very close to meaning completely unsustainable 
> in the long run. So how can this thing stand on it's own two feet 
> without constantly looking for subsidies and other structural handouts?
> 

So far we have not looked for subsidies or structural handouts. We seem
to be standing our our own two feet at present, however we could do with
more resources and this is why I am looking at the pricing models. The
first priority, as far as I am concerned, is to find $ to hold more
sprints.

> To me, the idea of "for profit" is about this capitalist idea of using 
> money to make more money rather than using money to make more goods or 
> content. So the idea of paying people for their time is not antithetical 
> to the idea of being "non profit". How many "non profit" organizations 
> do you know where all the employees actually are volunteers?

I know of at least one : FLOSS Manuals but there are _many_ others. Many
not for profits have no paid employees. 

Also, I didnt say people couldnt get paid. I would welcome the day we
have paid staff - it certainly would make my work load easier :) What I
did say however, is that the scheme we have at the moment is flawed, and
I'm looking for other solutions. I certainly dont think, however, that a
traditional publisher model is the way to go. However, anyone (including
yourself) can sell books for whatever price you like.

> 
> If I were you (but of course I'm not), I would take a hard look at the 
> costs and the costs of people's time involved in producing and 
> maintaining these manuals and price them accordingly. Pricing them at 
> "fire sale" prices isn't necessary to move the content. People can still 
> browse, print etc for free.

I have the feeling you expect book sales to generate a lot of revenue.
This is not the case anywhere in the industry. Especially when it comes
to niche orientated content such as manuals about How to Bypass Internet
Censorship, Video Subtitling, or Pure Data. I think it would be
interesting for anyone in the publishing industry, or has had material
published, to chime in and give their perspective on this - but my
feeling is, having attended several conferences on this and talked to
those in the publishing industry, that :
1. authors are not well paid
2. sales are tanking

> 
> I think a clear indication of what each manual *should* cost would 
> encourage people to take them, and the idea of buying one, seriously. An 
> open donation scheme, on the other hand, might encourage "feel good" 
> spending but without any scale to measure the value of the donation 
> against, and doesn't make nearly as strong a statement in this age of 
> throwaway downloadable content.
> 
> By the way, the "Berlin" pricing scale may appear to work for these 
> little cafes, but that is debatable when the staff's time, space rental 
> and food costs all get calculated...and I guarantee that when there is a 
> loss it is on the staff's side first. And try feeling good about it when 
> you've worked all week on a performance and get handed the EUR 20 of the 
> door money that is your share after the GEMA and the other people on the 
> bill all get their shares. I find myself saying the following on a 
> weekly basis these days: "You can die of exposure."
> 

I dont get this last point...

adam

> My 2-øre,
> D.
> 
> adam hyde wrote:
> > hi,
> > 
> > following on from the "release early, release often, release
> > everywhere" chat and the interesting posts that followed (esp. thanks
> > to chris for interesting deconstruction of the fm 'brand') -  I wanted to
> > follow up with a question about the pricing of books
> > 
> > At present we have 10 books available. 
> > 
> > We put a mark-up on our books of 2 euro for each. The theory on sales
> > is :
> > 1. we should sell enough of any one book so that the $ could be used to
> > fund a book sprint on that topic to update the book
> > 2. we should sell all material at as low a price as possible to try and
> > get the content out there
> > 
> > However, no one of our books has yet enough $ to fund a sprint. Also, I
> > am not sure about the tone of this policy so I think we need to rethink
> > the strategy a little. Which brings me to the interesting question of
> > 'Berlin Pricing'.
> > 
> > In Berlin there are a number of restaurants and bars that offer a very
> > interesting model. I attended one yesterday in Prenzlauerberg where
> > entrance was 1 euro, and then you could drink and eat as much as you
> > want. When you left you paid what you thought was a fair price. A friend
> > and I had 4 small glasses of wine each and paid 20 euro. That is about
> > the normal cost for a small glass of cheap wine in Berlin. 
> > 
> > When I paid the 20 I felt good (it might have also been the wine ;) I
> > didnt feel like I was paying a bill (I could have walked away without
> > paying anything), I felt I was contributing to something that I
> > personally supported. I was not obliged to pay, but I did and I felt
> > better for it.
> > 
> > There are some that would have paid more, and some that would have paid
> > less, and some that would have paid nothing. There are also those that
> > pay a little, and when they come back next time with more money then
> > they are more generous.
> > 
> > The interesting thing apart from the feel good factor (which is very
> > interesting) is that the model seems to be working. At least anecdotal
> > evidence shows that the bar is extremely popular with people spilling
> > out onto the street, and also the bar has been popular and has remained
> > in business for 5 years now.
> > 
> > Also, 'everyone' knows about the bar because of this pricing model. It
> > seemed to me that there were also a lot of tourists there which
> > suggestions word about the bar has spread wider than the local market.
> > 
> > So...I am wondering about our arbitrary 2 euro policy. 2 euro is a
> > number i picked out of the air, but I have been conflicted about it
> > almost since we have been selling books. 
> > 
> > It occurs to me that a much stronger model might be to sell all our
> > books strictly at cost price (ie. at the same price lulu charges to
> > make them) and offer a model like these Berlin bars. Lulu.com offers
> > the possibility of uploading and selling PDF. So we could, for example,
> > offer pdf certificates through lulu.com for the price of 1, 10 and 100
> > euro.
> > 
> > Then when someone buys a book they may also decide to support us with a
> > 10 euro certificate. Or they may not. They might also decide to buy 10 x
> > 100 euro certificates, or they may not. 
> > 
> > They might also just buy x number of books at cost for their school, or
> > they might buy no books and buy 5 x 10 euro certificates because they
> > like what we do. etc.
> > 
> > I think this model has an interesting philosophy at its core :
> > 1. it puts trust in our audience to support us when they can
> > 2. it does not require anyone to spend anything other than the
> > bare minimum on our content unless they really can
> > 
> > It seems to me this far better realises our original objective with our
> > books than the 2 euro model.
> > 
> > I think that this model is a very good way to build good will in our
> > readership. It is a way to build trust and show that we are about what
> > we say we are about : developing and distributing high quality
> > documentation about how to use free software. That is, we are not about
> > selling books for a profit.
> > 
> > Also, by moving the generation of income from profits of book sales to
> > the certificates, we are actually generating income as a result of the
> > good will we can generate in our audience. This seems a more
> > interesting motivation to me - in order to enhance income we have to
> > enhance the size and depth of the readerships good will.
> > Thats not a bad idea and keeps us focused on our core ideology and removes
> > the focus from non-core activities ie. making a profit from selling
> > books
> > 
> > There is another component to the model which is interesting. I think
> > in this model all sales of certificates would necessarily be put into a
> > pool of funds available for funding Book Sprints on any topic. This
> > seems to me to sit better within the idea of a community like FLOSS
> > Manuals (as opposed to individualism created when income from a book
> > gets spent only on a book sprint on that content). It also means that
> > we could put funds towards book sprints on topics that might not
> > otherwise attract funding.
> > 
> > Lastly, I think that this model would attract a lot of attention as it's
> > quite unique. Attention is also not such a bad thing, as any attention
> > draws more eyes to the content we develop, and also possibly more
> > participation in developing the content.
> > 
> > I'd be interested in any thoughts on this...
> > 
> > adam
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista ::: 
> http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista :::
> ---Oblique Strategy # 116:
> "Make an exhaustive list of everything you might do and do the last 
> thing on the list"
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-- 
Adam Hyde
Founder FLOSS Manuals
German mobile : + 49 15 2230 54563
Email : adam at flossmanuals.net
irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals

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