[FM Discuss] [CF] Re: need for CF mailing list // Fwd: historical collaborative writing
Mushon Zer-Aviv
mushon at shual.com
Mon Jul 12 08:01:24 PDT 2010
(ccing FM list [CF])
Hi Sissu and all,
A single book will cost $7.50 to print at Lulu (not including the
shipping and the ISBN)
The specs are:
A5, ~150pp, Standard paper, perfect bound, B&W printing (with full color
covers)
http://www.lulu.com/author/wizard/index.php
Not sure what would the shipping costs be as we have multiple addresses
to send to. But that's where we stand right now.
Adam, Michael and Catherine probably have more experience in Lulu than I
do. Can we get an estimate at how much would shipping be?
cheers,
Mushon Zer-Aviv
ע Shual.com <http://shual.com> - design studio
§ ShiftSpace.org <http://ShiftSpace.org> - an opensource layer above any
website
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+ 1-646-283-6057
On 7/12/10 2:36 AM, sissu tarka wrote:
>
> Mushon
> thanks for all your work on this- ***
>
> prints, do you think we can ask amanda and paul for eyebeam to sponsor
> a number of copies. i guess for them it's not such a huge deal?!!
>
> hm. question also how many copies for each of us to circulate.
> how many copies can we get with $ 500. think you mentioned, but forgot...
>
>
> soon
> sisssu
>
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> Quoting Mushon Zer-Aviv <mushon at shual.com>:
>
>> On 7/9/10 9:25 PM, adam hyde wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 18:15 -0700, Michael Mandiberg wrote:
>>>
>>>> that if we use the list, we put a prefix on all emails. so a subject
>>>> line would read something like this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> CF: I will get the ISBN
>>>>
>>>
>>> sounds good
>>>
>>>
>>>> and as per the title above, i will get the ISBN and let mushon know
>>>> how much it is. mushon, i will take repayment in the form of copies of
>>>> the new edition of the book. what is the deadline for ISBN.
>>>>
>>>>
>> We're almost done editing, it is mainly a bit more work on the
>> glossary and finishing the Futures section.
>> When we're done with that it's just final formatting of the PDF (I
>> can't really do that before I know we have the final content)
>> I need the ISBN for the cover. I would say *by the end of next week
>> we should send the book to be printed*.
>>> also, fm sent out 50 or so copies to academics and other interested
>>> peoples of the first version, it might be interesting to send the same
>>> people the second version...is there any cash to do this? (we dont have
>>> the $ to print or sent them at the mo)
>>>
>> Currently we have around $500 to break into writer fees and
>> (optionally) for printing.
>> So to judge by the writer fees each of us got in the first sprint
>> (€500), I would say, no, we are broke.
>>>> I want to have the "What is collaboration anyway?" section as one of
>>>> the chapters in this NYU. Anyone have any advice, or want to do the
>>>> editing, or object to me doing it, or? Also, what is the best way to
>>>> notate authorship + writing process when taking a part out of the
>>>> original whole, and out of the context of FM?
>>>>
>>> just copy the names from the chapter credits on the CREDITS chapters...
>>>
>>>
>> The way Wikipedia does the CC-BY-SA game is by a link to the article.
>> I know it's contested and unstandardized.
>> I think I read a post some guy called Mike Linksomething wrote about
>> the subject:
>> http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/13232
>>>>
>>>> Also, for full disclosure, the chapter will retain its CC-BY-SA
>>>> license, but the *collection* of essays will be CC-BY-SA-NC. It is a
>>>> collection of works, therefore it does not activate copyleft: this was
>>>> a surprise to me. I spent six months negotiating, and even this
>>>> license was pushing the press WAY beyond its comfort zone. They would
>>>> not have done the book w/o the NC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> i dont care...anyone else? i find licenses soooo boring...if its reuse
>>> then my general answer is 'yeah yeah whatever'...but if you wanna be
>>> zen
>>> about it you must get the ok from all authors...ugh..sorry i said
>>> that...
>>>
>>> adam
>>>
>> Yeah, I don't mind either... get rich!
>> M.
>>>
>>>> m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Mushon Zer-Aviv wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I generally agree with the generic best practice, and I see Adam's
>>>>> rational in prefering 1 live list rather than 2 dormant ones.
>>>>> I personally would like to see CF be a dormant one and have people
>>>>> drop by whenever actual work is being (/needs to be) done on the
>>>>> book.
>>>>> I am pretty sure the rest of the FM list would not have appreciated
>>>>> the noise of our back and forth about glossary and formatting and I
>>>>> would not really be interested in the internal discussion over a
>>>>> book about ffmpeg2theora. It is like saying, if you are into books,
>>>>> you'll be into any book. I beg to differ.
>>>>>
>>>>> I say, if the list wants to try the FM list then let's do that for a
>>>>> month, and then decide if we deserve our own place or not. I
>>>>> personally think it would be more practical to start with our own
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Re: Michael's find
>>>>> Super interesting stuff... It would be great for this to be either
>>>>> an case study or a glossary item. Are you into writing it?
>>>>> Even more important, would you help get us a new ISBN? I am pretty
>>>>> overloaded with both CF and my own work and could really use the
>>>>> help. I can give my CC or repay you or whatever. When we get that
>>>>> done, I will calculate how much do we have left out of the $1000
>>>>> fortune we got for the second sprint and will follow up with Verina,
>>>>> Astra and Catherine to suck a few dollars as writer fees from it.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers,
>>>>> Mushon Zer-Aviv
>>>>> <shual_gray.gif> Shual.com - design studio
>>>>> § ShiftSpace.org - an opensource layer above any website
>>>>> ¶ Mushon.com - blog
>>>>> × @mushon - Tweet me
>>>>> + 1-646-283-6057
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/9/10 5:09 AM, Mike Linksvayer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam's advice is definitely the generic best practice -- don't
>>>>>> split a list until it gets painful. Let's just use FM until/unless
>>>>>> we have a good problem to have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ps Anyone care if FM list just gets copied on this thread as an
>>>>>> intro? :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:32 AM, adam
>>>>>> hyde<adam at flossmanuals.net> wrote:
>>>>>> its up to you guys. i think its usually better to add to a
>>>>>> community and
>>>>>> depart when it makes no more sense than to decide to set a
>>>>>> new one up
>>>>>> which may or may not gain momentum. there are plenty of
>>>>>> people on the fm
>>>>>> list that would find this post interesting. it is a
>>>>>> community used to
>>>>>> experimenting with the idea of books and the process of
>>>>>> creating them
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you could preface the subject with CF: - to catch y'all
>>>>>>
>>>>>> adam
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 22:06 -0700, Michael Mandiberg
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> > i send this FYI, and also as a very good reason why i
>>>>>> think there
>>>>>> > should be a CF specific mailing list (i had to go find
>>>>>> an old email
>>>>>> > and copy-paste, rather than sending
>>>>>> to CF-discuss at flossmanuals.net). i
>>>>>> > don't think this is appropriate for the FM list: i think
>>>>>> it would get
>>>>>> > lost in that list, and i don't think it would reach any
>>>>>> of the CF
>>>>>> > participants. I'm on the FM list, and I rarely read it
>>>>>> at this point.
>>>>>> > too much noise, not enough signals directed at me. at
>>>>>> some point,
>>>>>> > one-mailing-list-fits-all doesn't work anymore.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > so... I just saw this in an email from LACE in Los
>>>>>> Angeles. It is a
>>>>>> > collaborative writing project that refers back to work
>>>>>> done by
>>>>>> > Bernadette Meyer, a NYC poet from the 70's and 80's. A
>>>>>> bit of research
>>>>>> > from
>>>>>> here: http://jacketmagazine.com/07/rifkin07.html lead me
>>>>>> to these
>>>>>> > two paragraphs. thought you all would be interested
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Unnatural Acts, the magazine that emerged from Mayer's
>>>>>> Poetry Project
>>>>>> > workshop in 1972, also reflects a certain resistance,
>>>>>> and suggests the
>>>>>> > distinct environment of the workshop as it contributed
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> > variegated nature of the St. Mark's scene as a whole. In
>>>>>> its treatment
>>>>>> > of authorship and issues of literary property, Unnatural
>>>>>> Acts might be
>>>>>> > situated on a continuum with such precursor little
>>>>>> magazines as Cid
>>>>>> > Corman's Origin and Berrigan's "C," but it positions
>>>>>> itself so far
>>>>>> > down that line that it ends up constituting a major
>>>>>> departure. In its
>>>>>> > first issue, Unnatural Acts came out entirely without
>>>>>> attribution or
>>>>>> > editorial information. Issue 1 consists of fifty-seven
>>>>>> numbered
>>>>>> > sections, concluding comically and somewhat
>>>>>> self-reflexively with a
>>>>>> > lone plaintive voice asking, "Does everyone here know
>>>>>> what / an ashram
>>>>>> > is except me?"
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The product of a group of people gathering at Mayer's
>>>>>> loft, writing
>>>>>> > for 8 hours, and then publishing the results, this first
>>>>>> issue
>>>>>> > of Unnatural Acts exhibits all of the unevenness that
>>>>>> might be
>>>>>> > expected from such a process. The second issue, which
>>>>>> opened its doors
>>>>>> > to people outside the workshop, offers an explicit
>>>>>> account of
>>>>>> > editorial policy and aesthetic agenda. A sidebar that
>>>>>> continues from
>>>>>> > the front to the back cover declares that "each issue of
>>>>>> unnatural
>>>>>> > acts magazine will be a collaborative writing
>>>>>> experiment," going on to
>>>>>> > name the eleven contributors, indicate the date
>>>>>> (November 11, 1972) on
>>>>>> > which the issue was written, and describe the fairly
>>>>>> elaborate
>>>>>> > procedure out of which it developed: each writer brought
>>>>>> a page of
>>>>>> > writing which was traded, rewritten, and discarded.
>>>>>> Participants then
>>>>>> > selected one of the rewritten documents and used it as
>>>>>> the basis for a
>>>>>> > new piece of writing. They noted the time at which their
>>>>>> new work was
>>>>>> > completed, returned it to a common pile, and then chose
>>>>>> another page
>>>>>> > to begin the process again; in the end, the poems were
>>>>>> arranged
>>>>>> > chronologically to produce the magazine's format. The
>>>>>> front and back
>>>>>> > covers (which you've got) contain a kind of disembodied
>>>>>> conversation,
>>>>>> > commenting on this process and theorizing collaboration
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> > generally. Just yesterday I found in the archive a
>>>>>> sketch for this
>>>>>> > cover where this material is called a "manifesto" - it
>>>>>> seems typical
>>>>>> > of the Unnatural Actsinitiative to revise the manifesto
>>>>>> into a more
>>>>>> > dialogic and accretive form.
>>>>>> > Unnatural Acts 5 also elaborates its process, which
>>>>>> directed writers
>>>>>> > and visual artists through four stages of collaborative
>>>>>> engagement and
>>>>>> > exchange. After that issue, the magazine terminated, a
>>>>>> fact
>>>>>> > attributable to funding problems, though it has been
>>>>>> suggested that
>>>>>> > potential contributors from the community were
>>>>>> discouraged by the
>>>>>> > magazine's no-names policy. "Our poems aren't our
>>>>>> appearances," one
>>>>>> > excerpt from the Issue 2 cover maintains, "when you take
>>>>>> out the I's /
>>>>>> > everybody is matched." It is tempting to imagine a
>>>>>> community as well
>>>>>> > as a poetics founded on "taking out the I's," and it
>>>>>> seems that
>>>>>> > Mayer's workshop and the extended group of writers and
>>>>>> artists
>>>>>> > surrounding it began to approximate such a space. In its
>>>>>> desire to
>>>>>> > take on the "unnatural" as its primary model for
>>>>>> producing artworks,
>>>>>> > the workshop deviates radically from the fantasies of
>>>>>> > self-legitimation and organicism manifest in so many of
>>>>>> the New
>>>>>> > Americans' poetic and institutional productions. The
>>>>>> "necessity . . .
>>>>>> > to be as wood is," declared by Olson in "Projective
>>>>>> Verse," is nowhere
>>>>>> > felt in Unnatural Acts, and Berrigan's half-ironic
>>>>>> claim, that "I was
>>>>>> > and am "C" magazine...And I intended and intend for "C"
>>>>>> to exist as a
>>>>>> > personal aesthetic statement by me," finds no
>>>>>> correlative in Mayer's
>>>>>> > near-invisible self-positioning. In place of individual
>>>>>> ambition,
>>>>>> > process itself appears to reign. In Issue 2, the
>>>>>> collaboratively
>>>>>> > produced poems begin to meditate on the linguistic and
>>>>>> social
>>>>>> > implications of this fact. I've given you one such poem,
>>>>>> apparently
>>>>>> > submitted at 3:55. It begins:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > m
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > NOT CONTENT: UN-NATURAL ACTS
>>>>>> > > w/ Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > Performances and Collaborative Writing Marathon
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > Taking its name from the historic collaborative
>>>>>> writing marathons
>>>>>> > > led by Bernadette Mayer and others in NYC during
>>>>>> 1972-73, UN-NATURAL
>>>>>> > > ACTS will explore the themes of hunger, war, and
>>>>>> desire through
>>>>>> > > public acts of collaboration.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > Beginning with two days of installation and
>>>>>> performance by Amina
>>>>>> > > Cain and Jennifer Karmin, a group of ten writers will
>>>>>> gather on the
>>>>>> > > third day to write together over the course of eight
>>>>>> hours. In a
>>>>>> > > daily ritual inaugurated on the fourth day, the
>>>>>> outline of a new
>>>>>> > > person's body will be traced onto the bodies of text
>>>>>> until the
>>>>>> > > project closes on 8 August.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > EVENTS:
>>>>>> > > Wed 21 July: Installation (12-5pm) and Hunger Texts
>>>>>> Read in the
>>>>>> > > Dark performance (5-5:30pm) by Amina Cain
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > Thu 22 July: Installation (12-5pm) and 4000 Words 4000
>>>>>> Dead
>>>>>> > > street performance (5-6pm) by Jennifer Karmin
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > Fri 23 July: Unnatural Acts, 8 hours of collaborative
>>>>>> writing
>>>>>> > > (12-8pm). Collaborators include: Jennifer Karmin,
>>>>>> Amina Cain, Teresa
>>>>>> > > Carmody, Saehee Cho, India Radfar, K. Lorraine Graham,
>>>>>> Harold
>>>>>> > > Abramowitz, Janice Lee, and a few surprises.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > July 24: Collaborative Reading and Artists' Talk
>>>>>> (4-6pm). Readers
>>>>>> > > include: Jennifer Karmin, Amina Cain, Teresa Carmody,
>>>>>> Saehee Cho,
>>>>>> > > India Radfar, K. Lorraine Graham, Harold Abramowitz,
>>>>>> Janice Lee, and
>>>>>> > > more.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > UN-NATURAL ACTS is part of NOT CONTENT, a series of
>>>>>> text projects
>>>>>> > > curated by Les Figues Press for Kim Schoenstadt's
>>>>>> Painted
>>>>>> > > Over/Under: Part 1.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > Photo Credit: Bernadette Mayer and Jennifer Karmin
>>>>>> August 2009, an
>>>>>> > > afternoon of collaborative writing Photo by Philip
>>>>>> Good.
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Adam Hyde
>>>>>> Founder FLOSS Manuals
>>>>>> German mobile : + 49 177 4935122
>>>>>> Email : adam at flossmanuals.net
>>>>>> irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Free manuals for free software"
>>>>>> http://www.flossmanuals.net/about
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mike Linksvayer, Vice President
>>>>>> Creative Commons
>>>>>> 171 Second Street, Suite 300
>>>>>> San Francisco, CA 94105
>>>>>> office: +1 415-369-8480
>>>>>> fax: +1 415-278-9419
>>>>>> various: mlinksva
>>>>>> email (preferred): scroll up
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please note: the contents of this email are not intended to be
>>>>>> legal advice nor should they be relied upon as, or represented to
>>>>>> be legal advice. Creative Commons cannot and does not give legal
>>>>>> advice. You need to assess the suitability of Creative Commons
>>>>>> tools for your particular situation, which may include obtaining
>>>>>> appropriate legal advice from a licensed attorney.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note: I am in the office Monday through Friday, though I work from
>>>>>> home some days. I am reachable electronically more hours than is
>>>>>> healthy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This email is:
>>>>>> [ ] already on wikileaks [X] ask first [ ] top secret
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from a full-sized keyboard interfacing with GNU/Linux
>>>>>> 2.6.32-22-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 22:02:19 UTC 2010 i686
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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