[FM Discuss] [CF] Re: need for CF mailing list // Fwd: historical collaborative writing

Astra Taylor info at hiddendriver.com
Mon Jul 12 08:14:38 PDT 2010


I read through Alan's good additions and found one or two typos. I'll  
check to see if they're still there or someone else caught em.  I  
didn't notice any problem's with Mike's edits.

And Adam -- thanks for the kind response to the second sprint's  
additions!

So I haven't quite followed all this back and forth. Is there a  
mailing list I should go and join?

Astra



On Jul 12, 2010, at 5:19 AM, Mike Linksvayer wrote:

> Re need for CF list, I've copied FM-discuss since nobody said they  
> minded me doing that.
>
> The historical collaboration is super interesting. I added it as a  
> bullet to the things we didn't get to chapter.
>
> I also attempted to wrap up the free as in free world chapter by  
> moving some of it to the things we didn't get to chapter and adding  
> a closing paragraph.
>
> Are we done now? ;-)
>
> Mike
>
> On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 3:15 AM, Michael Mandiberg <mandiberg at gmail.com 
> > wrote:
> I understand best practices, but i think mushon has put it well  
> below. I am also on the FM discuss digest list, and I only rarely  
> read the emails b/c there is so much that is not my signal. i would  
> suggest that if we use the list, we put a prefix on all emails. so a  
> subject line would read something like this:
>
> CF: I will get the ISBN
>
> that way we can filter for the messages (visually or w/in yr email  
> software)
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Mushon Zer-Aviv wrote:
>
>> I generally agree with the generic best practice, and I see Adam's  
>> rational in prefering 1 live list rather than 2 dormant ones.
>> I personally would like to see CF be a dormant one and have people  
>> drop by whenever actual work is being (/needs to be) done on the  
>> book.
>> I am pretty sure the rest of the FM list would not have appreciated  
>> the noise of our back and forth about glossary and formatting and I  
>> would not really be interested in the internal discussion over a  
>> book about ffmpeg2theora. It is like saying, if you are into books,  
>> you'll be into any book. I beg to differ.
>>
>> I say, if the list wants to try the FM list then let's do that for  
>> a month, and then decide if we deserve our own place or not. I  
>> personally think it would be more practical to start with our own  
>> list.
>>
>> Re: Michael's find
>> Super interesting stuff... It would be great for this to be either  
>> an case study or a glossary item. Are you into writing it?
>> Even more important, would you help get us a new ISBN? I am pretty  
>> overloaded with both CF and my own work and could really use the  
>> help. I can give my CC or repay you or whatever. When we get that  
>> done, I will calculate how much do we have left out of the $1000  
>> fortune we got for the second sprint and will follow up with  
>> Verina, Astra and Catherine to suck a few dollars as writer fees  
>> from it.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Mushon Zer-Aviv
>> <shual_gray.gif> Shual.com - design studio
>>
>>
>> §  ShiftSpace.org - an opensource layer above any website
>> ¶  Mushon.com - blog
>> × @mushon - Tweet me
>> + 1-646-283-6057
>>
>>
>> On 7/9/10 5:09 AM, Mike Linksvayer wrote:
>>>
>>> Adam's advice is definitely the generic best practice -- don't  
>>> split a list until it gets painful. Let's just use FM until/unless  
>>> we have a good problem to have.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> ps Anyone care if FM list just gets copied on this thread as an  
>>> intro? :-)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:32 AM, adam hyde <adam at flossmanuals.net>  
>>> wrote:
>>> its up to you guys. i think its usually better to add to a  
>>> community and
>>> depart when it makes no more sense than to decide to set a new one  
>>> up
>>> which may or may not gain momentum. there are plenty of people on  
>>> the fm
>>> list that would find this post interesting. it is a community used  
>>> to
>>> experimenting with the idea of books and the process of creating  
>>> them
>>>
>>> you could preface the subject with CF: - to catch y'all
>>>
>>> adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 22:06 -0700, Michael Mandiberg wrote:
>>> > i send this FYI, and also as a very good reason why i think there
>>> > should be a CF specific mailing list (i had to go find an old  
>>> email
>>> > and copy-paste, rather than sending to CF- 
>>> discuss at flossmanuals.net). i
>>> > don't think this is appropriate for the FM list: i think it  
>>> would get
>>> > lost in that list, and i don't think it would reach any of the CF
>>> > participants. I'm on the FM list, and I rarely read it at this  
>>> point.
>>> > too much noise, not enough signals directed at me. at some point,
>>> > one-mailing-list-fits-all doesn't work anymore.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > so... I just saw this in an email from LACE in Los Angeles. It  
>>> is a
>>> > collaborative writing project that refers back to work done by
>>> > Bernadette Meyer, a NYC poet from the 70's and 80's. A bit of  
>>> research
>>> > from here: http://jacketmagazine.com/07/rifkin07.html lead me to  
>>> these
>>> > two paragraphs. thought you all would be interested
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Unnatural Acts, the magazine that emerged from Mayer's Poetry  
>>> Project
>>> > workshop in 1972, also reflects a certain resistance, and  
>>> suggests the
>>> > distinct environment of the workshop as it contributed to the
>>> > variegated nature of the St. Mark's scene as a whole. In its  
>>> treatment
>>> > of authorship and issues of literary property, Unnatural Acts  
>>> might be
>>> > situated on a continuum with such precursor little magazines as  
>>> Cid
>>> > Corman's Origin and Berrigan's "C," but it positions itself so far
>>> > down that line that it ends up constituting a major departure.  
>>> In its
>>> > first issue, Unnatural Acts came out entirely without  
>>> attribution or
>>> > editorial information. Issue 1 consists of fifty-seven numbered
>>> > sections, concluding comically and somewhat self-reflexively  
>>> with a
>>> > lone plaintive voice asking, "Does everyone here know what / an  
>>> ashram
>>> > is except me?"
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The product of a group of people gathering at Mayer's loft,  
>>> writing
>>> > for 8 hours, and then publishing the results, this first issue
>>> > of Unnatural Acts exhibits all of the unevenness that might be
>>> > expected from such a process. The second issue, which opened its  
>>> doors
>>> > to people outside the workshop, offers an explicit account of
>>> > editorial policy and aesthetic agenda. A sidebar that continues  
>>> from
>>> > the front to the back cover declares that "each issue of unnatural
>>> > acts magazine will be a collaborative writing experiment," going  
>>> on to
>>> > name the eleven contributors, indicate the date (November 11,  
>>> 1972) on
>>> > which the issue was written, and describe the fairly elaborate
>>> > procedure out of which it developed: each writer brought a page of
>>> > writing which was traded, rewritten, and discarded. Participants  
>>> then
>>> > selected one of the rewritten documents and used it as the basis  
>>> for a
>>> > new piece of writing. They noted the time at which their new  
>>> work was
>>> > completed, returned it to a common pile, and then chose another  
>>> page
>>> > to begin the process again; in the end, the poems were arranged
>>> > chronologically to produce the magazine's format. The front and  
>>> back
>>> > covers (which you've got) contain a kind of disembodied  
>>> conversation,
>>> > commenting on this process and theorizing collaboration more
>>> > generally. Just yesterday I found in the archive a sketch for this
>>> > cover where this material is called a "manifesto" - it seems  
>>> typical
>>> > of the Unnatural Actsinitiative to revise the manifesto into a  
>>> more
>>> > dialogic and accretive form.
>>> > Unnatural Acts 5 also elaborates its process, which directed  
>>> writers
>>> > and visual artists through four stages of collaborative  
>>> engagement and
>>> > exchange. After that issue, the magazine terminated, a fact
>>> > attributable to funding problems, though it has been suggested  
>>> that
>>> > potential contributors from the community were discouraged by the
>>> > magazine's no-names policy. "Our poems aren't our appearances,"  
>>> one
>>> > excerpt from the Issue 2 cover maintains, "when you take out the  
>>> I's /
>>> > everybody is matched." It is tempting to imagine a community as  
>>> well
>>> > as a poetics founded on "taking out the I's," and it seems that
>>> > Mayer's workshop and the extended group of writers and artists
>>> > surrounding it began to approximate such a space. In its desire to
>>> > take on the "unnatural" as its primary model for producing  
>>> artworks,
>>> > the workshop deviates radically from the fantasies of
>>> > self-legitimation and organicism manifest in so many of the New
>>> > Americans' poetic and institutional productions. The  
>>> "necessity . . .
>>> > to be as wood is," declared by Olson in "Projective Verse," is  
>>> nowhere
>>> > felt in Unnatural Acts, and Berrigan's half-ironic claim, that  
>>> "I was
>>> > and am "C" magazine...And I intended and intend for "C" to exist  
>>> as a
>>> > personal aesthetic statement by me," finds no correlative in  
>>> Mayer's
>>> > near-invisible self-positioning. In place of individual ambition,
>>> > process itself appears to reign. In Issue 2, the collaboratively
>>> > produced poems begin to meditate on the linguistic and social
>>> > implications of this fact. I've given you one such poem,  
>>> apparently
>>> > submitted at 3:55. It begins:
>>> >
>>> > m
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Begin forwarded message:
>>> >
>>> > > NOT CONTENT: UN-NATURAL ACTS
>>> > > w/ Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Performances and Collaborative Writing Marathon
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Taking its name from the historic collaborative writing  
>>> marathons
>>> > > led by Bernadette Mayer and others in NYC during 1972-73, UN- 
>>> NATURAL
>>> > > ACTS will explore the themes of hunger, war, and desire through
>>> > > public acts of collaboration.
>>> > >
>>> > > Beginning with two days of installation and performance by Amina
>>> > > Cain and Jennifer Karmin, a group of ten writers will gather  
>>> on the
>>> > > third day to write together over the course of eight hours. In a
>>> > > daily ritual inaugurated on the fourth day, the outline of a new
>>> > > person's body will be traced onto the bodies of text until the
>>> > > project closes on 8 August.
>>> > >
>>> > > EVENTS:
>>> > > Wed 21 July: Installation (12-5pm) and Hunger Texts Read in the
>>> > > Dark performance (5-5:30pm) by Amina Cain
>>> > >
>>> > > Thu 22 July: Installation (12-5pm) and 4000 Words 4000 Dead
>>> > > street performance (5-6pm) by Jennifer Karmin
>>> > >
>>> > > Fri 23 July: Unnatural Acts, 8 hours of collaborative writing
>>> > > (12-8pm). Collaborators include: Jennifer Karmin, Amina Cain,  
>>> Teresa
>>> > > Carmody, Saehee Cho, India Radfar, K. Lorraine Graham, Harold
>>> > > Abramowitz, Janice Lee, and a few surprises.
>>> > >
>>> > > July 24: Collaborative Reading and Artists' Talk (4-6pm).  
>>> Readers
>>> > > include: Jennifer Karmin, Amina Cain, Teresa Carmody, Saehee  
>>> Cho,
>>> > > India Radfar, K. Lorraine Graham, Harold Abramowitz, Janice  
>>> Lee, and
>>> > > more.
>>> > >
>>> > > UN-NATURAL ACTS is part of NOT CONTENT, a series of text  
>>> projects
>>> > > curated by Les Figues Press for Kim Schoenstadt's Painted
>>> > > Over/Under: Part 1.
>>> > >
>>> > > Photo Credit: Bernadette Mayer and Jennifer Karmin August  
>>> 2009, an
>>> > > afternoon of collaborative writing Photo by Philip Good.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> Adam Hyde
>>> Founder FLOSS Manuals
>>> German mobile : + 49 177 4935122
>>> Email : adam at flossmanuals.net
>>> irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals
>>>
>>> "Free manuals for free software"
>>> http://www.flossmanuals.net/about
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Mike Linksvayer, Vice President
>>> Creative Commons
>>> 171 Second Street, Suite 300
>>> San Francisco, CA  94105
>>> office: +1 415-369-8480
>>> fax: +1 415-278-9419
>>> various: mlinksva
>>> email (preferred): scroll up
>>>
>>> Please note: the contents of this email are not intended to be  
>>> legal advice nor should they be relied upon as, or represented to  
>>> be legal advice.  Creative Commons cannot and does not give legal  
>>> advice. You need to assess the suitability of Creative Commons  
>>> tools for your particular situation, which may include obtaining  
>>> appropriate legal advice from a licensed attorney.
>>>
>>> Note: I am in the office Monday through Friday, though I work from  
>>> home some days. I am reachable electronically more hours than is  
>>> healthy.
>>>
>>> This email is:
>>>    [ ] already on wikileaks   [X] ask first   [ ] top secret
>>>
>>> Sent from a full-sized keyboard interfacing with GNU/Linux  
>>> 2.6.32-22-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 22:02:19 UTC 2010 i686
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Mike Linksvayer, Vice President
> Creative Commons
> 171 Second Street, Suite 300
> San Francisco, CA  94105
> office: +1 415-369-8480
> fax: +1 415-278-9419
> various: mlinksva
> email (preferred): scroll up
>
> Please note: the contents of this email are not intended to be legal  
> advice nor should they be relied upon as, or represented to be legal  
> advice.  Creative Commons cannot and does not give legal advice. You  
> need to assess the suitability of Creative Commons tools for your  
> particular situation, which may include obtaining appropriate legal  
> advice from a licensed attorney.
>
> Note: I am in the office Monday through Friday, though I work from  
> home some days. I am reachable electronically more hours than is  
> healthy.
>
> This email is:
>    [ ] already on wikileaks   [X] ask first   [ ] top secret
>
> Sent from a full-sized keyboard interfacing with GNU/Linux 2.6.32-22- 
> generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 22:02:19 UTC 2010 i686

Astra Taylor/Hidden Driver
www.hiddendriver.com
www.zeitgeistfilms.com/examinedlife/



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