[FM Discuss] [CF] Re: need for CF mailing list // Fwd: historical collaborative writing
adam hyde
adam at flossmanuals.net
Mon Jul 12 09:53:31 PDT 2010
On Mon, 2010-07-12 at 11:14 -0400, Astra Taylor wrote:
> I read through Alan's good additions and found one or two typos. I'll
> check to see if they're still there or someone else caught em. I
> didn't notice any problem's with Mike's edits.
>
>
> And Adam -- thanks for the kind response to the second sprint's
> additions!
>
>
> So I haven't quite followed all this back and forth. Is there a
> mailing list I should go and join?
>
join this :)
http://lists.flossmanuals.net/listinfo.cgi/discuss-flossmanuals.net
adam
>
> Astra
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2010, at 5:19 AM, Mike Linksvayer wrote:
>
> > Re need for CF list, I've copied FM-discuss since nobody said they
> > minded me doing that.
> >
> > The historical collaboration is super interesting. I added it as a
> > bullet to the things we didn't get to chapter.
> >
> > I also attempted to wrap up the free as in free world chapter by
> > moving some of it to the things we didn't get to chapter and adding
> > a closing paragraph.
> >
> > Are we done now? ;-)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 3:15 AM, Michael Mandiberg
> > <mandiberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I understand best practices, but i think mushon has put it
> > well below. I am also on the FM discuss digest list, and I
> > only rarely read the emails b/c there is so much that is not
> > my signal. i would suggest that if we use the list, we put a
> > prefix on all emails. so a subject line would read something
> > like this:
> >
> >
> > CF: I will get the ISBN
> >
> >
> > that way we can filter for the messages (visually or w/in yr
> > email software)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jul 9, 2010, at 3:20 PM, Mushon Zer-Aviv wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I generally agree with the generic best practice, and I
> > > see Adam's rational in prefering 1 live list rather than 2
> > > dormant ones.
> > > I personally would like to see CF be a dormant one and
> > > have people drop by whenever actual work is being (/needs
> > > to be) done on the book.
> > > I am pretty sure the rest of the FM list would not have
> > > appreciated the noise of our back and forth about glossary
> > > and formatting and I would not really be interested in the
> > > internal discussion over a book about ffmpeg2theora. It is
> > > like saying, if you are into books, you'll be into any
> > > book. I beg to differ.
> > >
> > > I say, if the list wants to try the FM list then let's do
> > > that for a month, and then decide if we deserve our own
> > > place or not. I personally think it would be more
> > > practical to start with our own list.
> > >
> > > Re: Michael's find
> > > Super interesting stuff... It would be great for this to
> > > be either an case study or a glossary item. Are you into
> > > writing it?
> > > Even more important, would you help get us a new ISBN? I
> > > am pretty overloaded with both CF and my own work and
> > > could really use the help. I can give my CC or repay you
> > > or whatever. When we get that done, I will calculate how
> > > much do we have left out of the $1000 fortune we got for
> > > the second sprint and will follow up with Verina, Astra
> > > and Catherine to suck a few dollars as writer fees from
> > > it.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > >
> > > Mushon Zer-Aviv
> > > <shual_gray.gif> Shual.com - design studio
> > >
> > >
> > > § ShiftSpace.org - an opensource layer above any website
> > > ¶ Mushon.com - blog
> > > × @mushon - Tweet me
> > > + 1-646-283-6057
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7/9/10 5:09 AM, Mike Linksvayer wrote:
> > > > Adam's advice is definitely the generic best practice --
> > > > don't split a list until it gets painful. Let's just use
> > > > FM until/unless we have a good problem to have.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > ps Anyone care if FM list just gets copied on this
> > > > thread as an intro? :-)
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:32 AM, adam
> > > > hyde <adam at flossmanuals.net> wrote:
> > > > its up to you guys. i think its usually better
> > > > to add to a community and
> > > > depart when it makes no more sense than to
> > > > decide to set a new one up
> > > > which may or may not gain momentum. there are
> > > > plenty of people on the fm
> > > > list that would find this post interesting. it
> > > > is a community used to
> > > > experimenting with the idea of books and the
> > > > process of creating them
> > > >
> > > > you could preface the subject with CF: - to
> > > > catch y'all
> > > >
> > > > adam
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 22:06 -0700, Michael
> > > > Mandiberg wrote:
> > > > > i send this FYI, and also as a very good
> > > > reason why i think there
> > > > > should be a CF specific mailing list (i had to
> > > > go find an old email
> > > > > and copy-paste, rather than sending
> > > > to CF-discuss at flossmanuals.net). i
> > > > > don't think this is appropriate for the FM
> > > > list: i think it would get
> > > > > lost in that list, and i don't think it would
> > > > reach any of the CF
> > > > > participants. I'm on the FM list, and I rarely
> > > > read it at this point.
> > > > > too much noise, not enough signals directed at
> > > > me. at some point,
> > > > > one-mailing-list-fits-all doesn't work
> > > > anymore.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > so... I just saw this in an email from LACE in
> > > > Los Angeles. It is a
> > > > > collaborative writing project that refers back
> > > > to work done by
> > > > > Bernadette Meyer, a NYC poet from the 70's and
> > > > 80's. A bit of research
> > > > > from
> > > > here: http://jacketmagazine.com/07/rifkin07.html lead me to these
> > > > > two paragraphs. thought you all would be
> > > > interested
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Unnatural Acts, the magazine that emerged from
> > > > Mayer's Poetry Project
> > > > > workshop in 1972, also reflects a certain
> > > > resistance, and suggests the
> > > > > distinct environment of the workshop as it
> > > > contributed to the
> > > > > variegated nature of the St. Mark's scene as a
> > > > whole. In its treatment
> > > > > of authorship and issues of literary property,
> > > > Unnatural Acts might be
> > > > > situated on a continuum with such precursor
> > > > little magazines as Cid
> > > > > Corman's Origin and Berrigan's "C," but it
> > > > positions itself so far
> > > > > down that line that it ends up constituting a
> > > > major departure. In its
> > > > > first issue, Unnatural Acts came out entirely
> > > > without attribution or
> > > > > editorial information. Issue 1 consists of
> > > > fifty-seven numbered
> > > > > sections, concluding comically and somewhat
> > > > self-reflexively with a
> > > > > lone plaintive voice asking, "Does everyone
> > > > here know what / an ashram
> > > > > is except me?"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The product of a group of people gathering at
> > > > Mayer's loft, writing
> > > > > for 8 hours, and then publishing the results,
> > > > this first issue
> > > > > of Unnatural Acts exhibits all of the
> > > > unevenness that might be
> > > > > expected from such a process. The second
> > > > issue, which opened its doors
> > > > > to people outside the workshop, offers an
> > > > explicit account of
> > > > > editorial policy and aesthetic agenda. A
> > > > sidebar that continues from
> > > > > the front to the back cover declares that
> > > > "each issue of unnatural
> > > > > acts magazine will be a collaborative writing
> > > > experiment," going on to
> > > > > name the eleven contributors, indicate the
> > > > date (November 11, 1972) on
> > > > > which the issue was written, and describe the
> > > > fairly elaborate
> > > > > procedure out of which it developed: each
> > > > writer brought a page of
> > > > > writing which was traded, rewritten, and
> > > > discarded. Participants then
> > > > > selected one of the rewritten documents and
> > > > used it as the basis for a
> > > > > new piece of writing. They noted the time at
> > > > which their new work was
> > > > > completed, returned it to a common pile, and
> > > > then chose another page
> > > > > to begin the process again; in the end, the
> > > > poems were arranged
> > > > > chronologically to produce the magazine's
> > > > format. The front and back
> > > > > covers (which you've got) contain a kind of
> > > > disembodied conversation,
> > > > > commenting on this process and theorizing
> > > > collaboration more
> > > > > generally. Just yesterday I found in the
> > > > archive a sketch for this
> > > > > cover where this material is called a
> > > > "manifesto" - it seems typical
> > > > > of the Unnatural Actsinitiative to revise the
> > > > manifesto into a more
> > > > > dialogic and accretive form.
> > > > > Unnatural Acts 5 also elaborates its process,
> > > > which directed writers
> > > > > and visual artists through four stages of
> > > > collaborative engagement and
> > > > > exchange. After that issue, the magazine
> > > > terminated, a fact
> > > > > attributable to funding problems, though it
> > > > has been suggested that
> > > > > potential contributors from the community were
> > > > discouraged by the
> > > > > magazine's no-names policy. "Our poems aren't
> > > > our appearances," one
> > > > > excerpt from the Issue 2 cover maintains,
> > > > "when you take out the I's /
> > > > > everybody is matched." It is tempting to
> > > > imagine a community as well
> > > > > as a poetics founded on "taking out the I's,"
> > > > and it seems that
> > > > > Mayer's workshop and the extended group of
> > > > writers and artists
> > > > > surrounding it began to approximate such a
> > > > space. In its desire to
> > > > > take on the "unnatural" as its primary model
> > > > for producing artworks,
> > > > > the workshop deviates radically from the
> > > > fantasies of
> > > > > self-legitimation and organicism manifest in
> > > > so many of the New
> > > > > Americans' poetic and institutional
> > > > productions. The "necessity . . .
> > > > > to be as wood is," declared by Olson in
> > > > "Projective Verse," is nowhere
> > > > > felt in Unnatural Acts, and Berrigan's
> > > > half-ironic claim, that "I was
> > > > > and am "C" magazine...And I intended and
> > > > intend for "C" to exist as a
> > > > > personal aesthetic statement by me," finds no
> > > > correlative in Mayer's
> > > > > near-invisible self-positioning. In place of
> > > > individual ambition,
> > > > > process itself appears to reign. In Issue 2,
> > > > the collaboratively
> > > > > produced poems begin to meditate on the
> > > > linguistic and social
> > > > > implications of this fact. I've given you one
> > > > such poem, apparently
> > > > > submitted at 3:55. It begins:
> > > > >
> > > > > m
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Begin forwarded message:
> > > > >
> > > > > > NOT CONTENT: UN-NATURAL ACTS
> > > > > > w/ Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Performances and Collaborative Writing
> > > > Marathon
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Taking its name from the historic
> > > > collaborative writing marathons
> > > > > > led by Bernadette Mayer and others in NYC
> > > > during 1972-73, UN-NATURAL
> > > > > > ACTS will explore the themes of hunger, war,
> > > > and desire through
> > > > > > public acts of collaboration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Beginning with two days of installation and
> > > > performance by Amina
> > > > > > Cain and Jennifer Karmin, a group of ten
> > > > writers will gather on the
> > > > > > third day to write together over the course
> > > > of eight hours. In a
> > > > > > daily ritual inaugurated on the fourth day,
> > > > the outline of a new
> > > > > > person's body will be traced onto the bodies
> > > > of text until the
> > > > > > project closes on 8 August.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > EVENTS:
> > > > > > Wed 21 July: Installation (12-5pm) and
> > > > Hunger Texts Read in the
> > > > > > Dark performance (5-5:30pm) by Amina Cain
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thu 22 July: Installation (12-5pm) and 4000
> > > > Words 4000 Dead
> > > > > > street performance (5-6pm) by Jennifer
> > > > Karmin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fri 23 July: Unnatural Acts, 8 hours of
> > > > collaborative writing
> > > > > > (12-8pm). Collaborators include: Jennifer
> > > > Karmin, Amina Cain, Teresa
> > > > > > Carmody, Saehee Cho, India Radfar, K.
> > > > Lorraine Graham, Harold
> > > > > > Abramowitz, Janice Lee, and a few surprises.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > July 24: Collaborative Reading and Artists'
> > > > Talk (4-6pm). Readers
> > > > > > include: Jennifer Karmin, Amina Cain, Teresa
> > > > Carmody, Saehee Cho,
> > > > > > India Radfar, K. Lorraine Graham, Harold
> > > > Abramowitz, Janice Lee, and
> > > > > > more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > UN-NATURAL ACTS is part of NOT CONTENT, a
> > > > series of text projects
> > > > > > curated by Les Figues Press for Kim
> > > > Schoenstadt's Painted
> > > > > > Over/Under: Part 1.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Photo Credit: Bernadette Mayer and Jennifer
> > > > Karmin August 2009, an
> > > > > > afternoon of collaborative writing Photo by
> > > > Philip Good.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Adam Hyde
> > > > Founder FLOSS Manuals
> > > > German mobile : + 49 177 4935122
> > > > Email : adam at flossmanuals.net
> > > > irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals
> > > >
> > > > "Free manuals for free software"
> > > > http://www.flossmanuals.net/about
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mike Linksvayer, Vice President
> > > > Creative Commons
> > > > 171 Second Street, Suite 300
> > > > San Francisco, CA 94105
> > > > office: +1 415-369-8480
> > > > fax: +1 415-278-9419
> > > > various: mlinksva
> > > > email (preferred): scroll up
> > > >
> > > > Please note: the contents of this email are not intended
> > > > to be legal advice nor should they be relied upon as, or
> > > > represented to be legal advice. Creative Commons cannot
> > > > and does not give legal advice. You need to assess the
> > > > suitability of Creative Commons tools for your
> > > > particular situation, which may include obtaining
> > > > appropriate legal advice from a licensed attorney.
> > > >
> > > > Note: I am in the office Monday through Friday, though I
> > > > work from home some days. I am reachable electronically
> > > > more hours than is healthy.
> > > >
> > > > This email is:
> > > > [ ] already on wikileaks [X] ask first [ ] top
> > > > secret
> > > >
> > > > Sent from a full-sized keyboard interfacing with
> > > > GNU/Linux 2.6.32-22-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3
> > > > 22:02:19 UTC 2010 i686
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mike Linksvayer, Vice President
> > Creative Commons
> > 171 Second Street, Suite 300
> > San Francisco, CA 94105
> > office: +1 415-369-8480
> > fax: +1 415-278-9419
> > various: mlinksva
> > email (preferred): scroll up
> >
> > Please note: the contents of this email are not intended to be legal
> > advice nor should they be relied upon as, or represented to be legal
> > advice. Creative Commons cannot and does not give legal advice. You
> > need to assess the suitability of Creative Commons tools for your
> > particular situation, which may include obtaining appropriate legal
> > advice from a licensed attorney.
> >
> > Note: I am in the office Monday through Friday, though I work from
> > home some days. I am reachable electronically more hours than is
> > healthy.
> >
> > This email is:
> > [ ] already on wikileaks [X] ask first [ ] top secret
> >
> > Sent from a full-sized keyboard interfacing with GNU/Linux
> > 2.6.32-22-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 22:02:19 UTC 2010 i686
>
> Astra Taylor/Hidden Driver
> www.hiddendriver.com
> www.zeitgeistfilms.com/examinedlife/
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Adam Hyde
Founder FLOSS Manuals
German mobile : + 49 177 4935122
Email : adam at flossmanuals.net
irc: irc.freenode.net #flossmanuals
"Free manuals for free software"
http://www.flossmanuals.net/about
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